Interessting comprehension!!!!!!!!!!!! Subject: Trnascript Musharrafs Interview Headlines Today IN HIS FIRST INTERVIEW TO HEADLINES TODAY, AFTER COMING BACK TO PAKISTAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN, GENERAL PERVEZ MUSHARRAF MADE STARTLING REVELATIONS DATED 22ND OCT 2014 Q. 1. You gave an interview General Musharraf last week where you said for the first time in a public admission of what has been said in India for a very long time that Pakistan and the Pakistan Army incites terrorism in Kashmir. You have now admitted it on record that all that Pakistan does is incite people in Kashmir, that’s what they need to do. You have said this in public and people in India are saying see General Musharraf now in retirement is accepting what India has been saying for the longest time? Musharraf: These are inferences you are drawing. I never said anything like that and inferring that Army does it again, these are all inferences. I had just said that just like you doing whatever you are doing in Baluchistan, we also have capabilities of doing something behind your backs. That is what I had said and nothing more than that. No inference on the Army and no inference on what has been going on in the past. Q. 2. Not just did you said that we can incite trouble in Kashmir, you also said that we can fight the Indian Army not just along the borders, we can also fight them behind enemy lines indicating a public admission of the fact that there are people, the Pakistani state, whether they are the Army, the deep state, the ISI have access to who can be used to provoke India, fight with India behind enemy lines, those were your words General Musharraf? Musharraf: Well Rahul, why do you take one sided views. I have said that I said just now whatever you are doing in Baluchistan we also have similar capabilities. Right. And you have lot of instabilities behind your lines certainly, there are lot of insurgencies going on in Kashmir and then in your east and Naxalites and Maoists, then there are lot of ULFA going on, a lot of anti-state activities going on which you are controlling with your armed forces and second line forces. Similar situation is here. Now what I have said is, certainly those instabilities are there. Like you are exploiting our instabilities in Pakistan we have the capability of exploiting your instabilities also. So it is not a one sided game that is what I wanted to say and I repeat it’s not a one sided game. Please don’t do it. Environment today in the world and the region is to fight terrorism and there are many form of terrorism in Pakistan. We are fighting them. Please assist, the world should assist us fighting them instead of increasing our problems to fight them and confront them. Because it will have a fallout on you also. Q. 3. So with your permission what I will do is – I play out now just 30 seconds of your comments made to a Pakistani news channel (byte plays). “Humare aur bhi source hain inhe sirf incite karne ki der hai.” You are admitting that there are deep sources behind enemy lines in India which Pakistan incites? Your words Sir. Musharraf: No that is not the log hain maine. What I have said is that there are people in Pakistan ready to sacrifice and go across. We have been actually controlling them not to do that. And we have been making efforts to control them. To going on the track of peaceful negotiations with India in my time and that is why we were controlling. And these elements still do exist. Let’s face fact. And what I have said is that these elements are there, you have your instabilities behind, which are exploitable so therefore don’t do what you are doing on our borders. Don’t do what you are doing in Baluchistan. Don’t do what you are in instigating within Pakistan because we can respond that is what I wanted to say and I am very proud of the fact that we have capabilities to respond. Q. 4. Sir, you are suggesting that what is happening in Baluchistan, even though there is not an iota of evidence ever been provided to substantiate that charges as gospel truth. But what India says about Pakistan’s role in Kashmir and your own admission on it. How can you say that what India is doing in Baluchistan is true, there had never been any evidence about it, whereas what Pakistan does along the Line of Control in Kashmir is now clearly admitted, there is evidences and now your admission on the issue? Musharraf: No, No. I don’t agree with the fact. You take very much one sided views. We have been giving lot of proof and evidence. Now this story is unending. We will take the entire twenty minutes discussing this. There is absolute evidence of your involvement. There is absolute evidence of your consulates in Kandhar and Jalalabad, what they are doing. There is absolute evidence of RAW agents training camps on our borders, on the western borders along Kandhar, across Chaman, there is total evidence. So please don’t think there is no evidence. And just as there is evidence here the evidence you talk on Kashmir, the evidence that you are talking of is as nascent as the evidence that I am talking of. So please understand that you also don’t have any evidence Pakistan involved, you will keep saying it, we will keep denying it. You will keep denying on what you are doing in Pakistan, we will keep saying you are. So this is unending story. Q. 5. The chief minister of Jammu & Kashmir Omar Abdullah reacted to your comments and said this was supposed to be an indigenous struggle, the fight in Kashmir and now General Musharraf says that Pakistan plays a role in inciting trouble in Kashmir. He was rather surprised at the comment you made? Musharraf: I think very much if there are elements here who want to join with what they call it our brethrens, the Kashmir is on this side joining with brethren across in your side doesn’t mean that it is not indigenous. It is very much indigenous. People of Kashmir have risen against you. They want Indians out. They want your forces out. They are fighting your forces. But there is lot of sympathy on this side, on our Kashmiris, in what we call Azad Kashmir and even in Pakistan elements who want to go across and fight the Indian Army. It is the Pakistan Army which has been resisting them. It is the Pakistan Army and in my time, I myself tried to negotiate a peaceful settlement, trying to tell them that we have to go to negotiating table to discuss. However that potential remains, that potential is there. So that is what I am trying to say. Let’s face facts. These are facts. Q. 6. General Musharraf, when you were in charge you declared a unilateral ceasefire along the Line of Control which held for fairly long period, with reasonable success. However after Pakistan’s defeat in Asian Games were India beat the Pakistan in hockey. There was an immediate response with unprovoked firing from the Pakistan’s side, which is activated and made live along LoC once more. And that ceasefire that prevailed for the longest time is now completely nullified because of constant and unprovoked firing from the Pak Army and the Pakistan rangers. Why is this happening General? Musharraf: Rahul I will absolutely deny this. We are not so small minded. You may be. Indians may be. But Pakistanis are not that small minded that on a hockey match, in which Pakistan got beaten, we will start to provoke firing on the line of control. Who is telling this all cock and bull story. This is absolutely untrue. Yes we declared a ceasefire, we declared a ceasefire, may very proudly say that, i with Prime Minister Vajpayee as well as well as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, we have started going on political track of resolving Siachin, Sir Creek and Kashmir. Therefore, when we are using political instrument, the military instrument, whatever was going across the Line of Control, whosoever was provoking the firing. Please don’t take as it is Pakistan that provokes. It is very much opposite as well. So, let’s leave at that. There are a lot of provocations from your side, sometimes from our side. These are uncertain elements. But don’t keep giving the blame on the Pakistan all the time. And that this, a very ridiculous point that we lost hockey match and we decided to fire up peace. Q. 7. No this was said by Indian Generals on the ground and in Pakistan they say that seems to have been the provocation. Before that there was relative peace on that particular evening. What are you making General Musharraf of current escalation? Even today there has been heavy exchange along the Line of Control. Now it almost seems as if all the peace steps were completely nullified and we are back to the pre-2002 scenario. Why is this happening in your view General Musharraf? Musharraf: Rahul, you are giving me a line for future point of view. Whenever we beat you in hockey, I am going to give you all the accusations that Indian have started doing all these, what they are doing, after they have lost to us in the hockey. This will also a line I will take in future! But this is a ridiculous line. Let me come to this point of the Line of Control. My information, my intelligence and my common sense says that it is the Indians who provoked all this firing. Pakistan army at the moment is involved in fighting terrorism in the north Waziristan, \ in the tribal agencies. They are totally involved in that. They would be stupid and senseless to open a new front with India. So that they get more bogged down. This makes no sense. We are not that senseless. So obviously, quite clearly, it is India, unfortunately, which is trying to bog the army down. You are trying to destabilise on the LOC in the East. You are doing the same on the boundary with the Afghanistan. You are using training camps to induct and send terrorisst to Baluchistan and frontier. And you are also trying to destabilise us internally. Now, don’t do this. If you analyse the regional context and international context of terrorism today. There is requirement of the world, and all countries to join hand and defeat terrorism. And if we try to neutralise each other, we are going to encourage terrorism. Q. 8. General Musharraf in what you say there seems to have complete lack of acceptance of the fact that a lot of Pakistan’s problems are self-made. The very focus that are now turning around and attacking you are the forces that the Pakistani establishment and you included have nurtured and feed for the longest time. Thinking of them as strategic forces, as your strategic allies in the war against terrorism because of the proxy game you are playing. These are the forces that now are hurting Pakistan and you are blaming India for all of that. Is there no acceptance that the problems of Pakistan to a great extent is itself created? Musharraf: No, no, no, no. I blame India wherever the blame deserves to be given. Right. I know what has been going on in Afghanistan and I know what has been happening in Afghanistan since 1979, when the Soviets came in and I know what India was doing in Afghanistan with Afghan intelligence and KGB even before 1979. You had been always together to destabilise Pakistan, the Greater Baluchistan, the Pashtunistan stunt is all created by nexus of your intelligence agencies with Afghan intelligence agencies. However, then we came to now this is a long story again. You are involving me in a long story. Yes we got involved in defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan, the Afghans themselves rose against them and after that the Taliban came in and we took some action in Pakistan’s own interest to fight Taliban. Now whether these are created by us, they are created by circumstances that prevailed in the region over the last thirty years since 1979. Q. 9: Are you suggesting when you say that the Pak Army is very stretched because of its operations in Waziristan and therefore would not want to run the risk of opening another front in the west, that the Pakistan Army in its current deployment is incapable of taking on Indian Army because it’s so badly stretched and therefore the Pak Generals would not do it. Is that you are saying Gen Musharraf? Musharraf: Rahul, let me tell you that Pakistan Army is a very strong army. While we may be stressed, yes indeed fighting terrorism but our guard in the East is never down. You must know that. Our guard on the East is never down. The forces are there and we are capable of meeting any aggression or any forays by Indian Army on our borders. Please don’t be mistaken about that and you know, the whole world know that there is a nuclear connotation involved now in this, so please don’t incite trouble. You are already inciting trouble on our Western borders in Afghanistan and on Western border in Baluchistan and Frontier. Don’t do that. I think it is very unbecoming that you are trying to take advantage of Pakistan’s internal problems that we are trying to face and fight, especially fighting terrorism. You must not do that. It is very unbecoming. Q. 10: Sir, each time, there is any kind of escalation along the border, Pak immediately uses the word ‘nuclear’. Is that just an attempt, because I spoke to couple of strategic experts and they said that Pakistan is now becoming like South Korea. The moment it is put under pressure, there moment there is a faultline that emerges, they hold up the N threat. And in that sense, it is a bogey. The moment there is any firing along Pak-India border, Pak says they can use a nuclear weapon. Is that now a threat where you hope to create a deterrent by using the N word sir? Musharraf: No, No, not at all. We have conventional forces which are strong enough to counter you, to fight with you and safeguard our own territorial integrity and our interests. The nuclear, I think you are exaggerating again where border incident takes place and we go and say we are a nuclear power. That is not the case but you must also understand when a military force which is four to five times more than our size, it is very brave of us to confront you still but there is no doubt you are four or five times more in size than Pakistan military. So when that is the case than nuclear connotation does come into play. And you must understand, your military very well understands it. Q. 11: Gen Musharraf, as an architect of India-Pakistan peace process, there are some bodies that say you were very close to a resolution with the then PM Manmohan Singh. What are you making of the deep freeze into which India-Pak ties currently fallen? Musharraf: Yes I think Rahul, this is very good. Now you are moving on to the peace aspect instead of talking of confrontation between India and Pakistan which is bad certainly. Nobody wants confrontation between two countries. We must not have confrontation. Now we were, yes as you said we indeed were going on the peace track between myself and prime minister Manmohan Singh, even before that with prime minister Vajpayee but now unfortunately, .yes indeed because of whatever has been happening on the borders, whatever is happening in Afghanistan, this has been put on a backburner. But again you are blaming Pakistan, but I very sincerely, very honestly I would like to say, it is India to blame. You are troubling us everywhere. You are trying to destabilise us internally, you are trying to fight proxy war with us in Afghanistan and creating an anti-Pakistan Afghanistan and now you have initiated this conflict on the Line of Control (LoC). It is you, the Indians, I would say who have made sure that this peace process is put on the backburner. Let me tell you that at this moment this present government of prime minister Nawaz Sharif in Pakistan has been extremely positive on the peace process. In fact they have been maligned for being overly appeasing towards India ut in spite of all this you are doing all this against all this. So the people of Pakistan really understand your ill-intentions against Pakistan. Q. 12: Gen Musharraf, I must say that PM surprised his fiercest when he extended the hands of friendship and when he invited Pakistan’s PM Nawaz Sharif to India to attend his inauguration. After that, FS talks were set up, despite opposition from within BJP as well but Pakistan went back despite the Pakistan HC being told that the meeting with Hurriyat is off the cards. You cannot meet with the Hurriyat and hope that the FS level talks will continue. The Pakistan HC went ahead and met with Hurriyat leaders. Now, that is the red line that the Modi govt has said. Pak crossed that red line. You surely cannot blame India for having cancelled the FS level talks because its Pakistan that despite being told that please don’t meet with Hurriyat leaders, despite Nawaz Sharif not meeting Hurriyat leaders when he was in India, the HC went out and did this and Modi then had to react the way he did because he had already announced that he would do so if the HC went and met the Hurriyat leaders Gen Musharraf? Musharraf: Prime Minister Modi is your Prime Minister, not Pakistan’s Prime Minister. We don’t take any dictation from him. We know his credentials. We know his anti-Pakistan credentials. Now, it may be a red line for you that people of Pakistan, Prime Minister of Pakistan, or the Foreign Secretary must not meet the APHC. That is not our red line. We do not follow your red line. They must meet. I would say that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, when, he went to India, should have met the APHC leaders. Why is that a red line? There is dispute, internationally recognized, recognized by the UN, and we myself, and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Vajpayee were discussing Kashmir. I used to meet the APHC leaders every time. So why is there a change of heart? That itself shows and proves the anti-Pakistan credentials of Prime Minister Modi. Now, if that be so, so certainly it’s a confrontationist course. He is taking a confrontationist course with Pakistan. So, this red line that he has declared is confrontationist certainly. It is not peaceful. And when you say he had invited Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif invited him to Pakistan and he didn’t come. So why should Nawaz Sharif has been, show keen on running and going to India. Q. 13: Nawaz Sharif was not Prime Minister. Sir, Nawaz Sharif became PM long after Narendra Modi got elected to office. He has become PM of India only in May. Nawaz Sharif was elected before that. You are saying that Modi has confrontationist intent. Now again, you have no evidence to back this. Remember, PM Modi is the one who invited Sharif. Musharraf: All his speeches Rahul. I think let’s not. If you deny something, if you call it is sunlight outside, it is dark outside, what can I say. He has been talking all over the world. We know his speeches. We know what he talks about Pakistan. His latest speeches show, such aggressive speeches against Pakistan, I mean that, they will teach us a lesson and all that, these are, what are we talking Rahul. I mean, let’s not live in a fool’s paradise and we are also not asleep here. We are listening to what he says. We are seeing what he is doing. Q. 14: We are seeing Pak now once again attempting to internationalize Kashmir. When you were President, Gen Musharraf, when there were speeches in the UNGA, we had seen Pak go off the Kashmir rhetoric, say what it had to, but not mention the word Kashmir, because Kashmir would be discussed bilaterally. Once again, we are seeing Pak unsuccessfully try and build up international rhetoric around Kashmir. A, it’s not succeeding, and B, why is Pak doing so Gen Musharraf? Musharraf: Ya, it has to — Rahul, when — we need sincerity — I always — I even told both your prime ministers that in order to move forward on a peace-process and resolve everything, we need to have three qualities – Number 1 is sincerity, sincerity that we want to resolve the disputes. Number 2 is flexibility, flexibility accommodating each other’s point of views. And Number 3 is boldness and courage to sell whatever give and take — whatever we give to take something — to sell it to our public. These are 3 qualities required. Now, when, if you are sincere towards peace-process, which both of your prime ministers were, we thought of going towards, on the bilateral track. The term bilateralism is termed by you, coined by you, by India. Now, whereas this is an international dispute, you said should be resolved bilaterally and with your clout around the world, people got off this, and we were going on bilateral track but when we discuss with you, before me, I am talking of the period before me, when we got on the bilateral track, you wouldn’t discuss anything. You wouldn’t go on the peace track. Now, in my case, when we started bilaterally, we started moving forward. So, therefore, there was no need of internationalizing the issue. Now, when you are not discussing anything, you don’t want to resolve any disputes, so, therefore, we have to internationalize it. I think, Pakistan has a very, very correct and good cause to internationalize Kashmir because you refused to discuss bilaterally. You are taking of our prime ministers not even meeting the APHC leaders. So, what kind of bilateralism are you expecting? Are you browbeating Pakistan? Yes, indeed, you are. Prime Minister Modi and India, today, is in an aggressive stance to browbeat Pakistan, not understanding that Pakistan does not get browbeaten. It is against our blood, against our genes. We will not be browbeaten. Therefore, instead of trying to browbeat us, go on the peace track, genuinely, sincerely, and if it is lacking in sincerity, then we will go our way, you go your way. Q. 15: Since the trenchant position you are taking in this interview also reflects to a great extent how Pakistan has reacted so far is to be understood that you believe that under PM Narendra Modi, India and Pakistan can’t make headway when it come to resolving any of the prickly issue like border dispute, Sir Creek or any of the other bilateral issue that bogs our relationship down? Musharraf: Yes, yes, we saw. Yes, yes, indeed. But are you denying that he was denied a visa? What was he denied a visa for? Because he had abetted in a terrorist act of killing 2000 Muslims in Gujarat. That is why. Q. 16: General Musharraf, you also saw the kind of response that Narendra Modi got when went to United States. Musharraf: Ha, ha, come on, Rahul, we are not kids. Q. 17: That’s a political debate. The US now says that he never applied for a visa. If he had applied for a Visa that would be considered. But that’s a Political debate and I don’t wish to get into it. Musharraf: Ya, you won’t get into it because it goes against you, isn’t it, against you Prime Minister, that is why you don’t want to discuss it? Now, I would like to discuss this. Why he was denied a visa? Q. 18: First and foremost, if there were a BJP spokesperson on the show, he is the one who should defending what you are saying. As a journalist, it’s not my job? Musharraf: As an Indian you should counter it. Q. 19: Absolutely not because I am a journalist and my job is to ask question. Musharraf: No, no, no — these are not political — these are facts — we are talking of terrorist acts — we are talking of India-Pakistan relation — whatever the Prime Minister of India does or has done in the past — this is very much an issue between India-Pakistan relations. Q. 20: General Musharraf, I must say that though when you say Modi is anti Muslim, you are reflecting of a stereotype. Now if you look at the results of the assembly elections in Gujarat. If you look at the results of the Lok Sabha, a certain per cent of results of the Lok Sabha, a certain per cent of the Muslims population has voted for PM Modi. Since the time he has become PM he hasn’t taken one action which can in any way be described as anti Muslim or anti minority. On Diwali our PM will be Srinagar, speaking to the flood affected people of the Kashmir valley. Surely these are not anti minority moves from any perspective. So, far he has not done anything as PM that you can call anti Muslim. So, you are stereotyping General? Musharraf: Ok, ok — well, well, I am very glad, I am very glad but this is the perception and let’s not deny it has been a perception. It is very much a perception in India, in your newspapers, in your TV channels we have been hearing, for heaven’s sake, Rahul, let’s not deny facts. He has been known as anti-Muslim. If he is not now, he is changing stance, its excellent, I am very glad. He is known to be anti-Pakistan. Now, if he changes stance and becomes more amiable towards a discussion, and debate over issues, I would be too glad. Q. 21. Now I will talk to you General regarding situation in Pakistan. Do you believe that the Pakistani state has now become dysfunctional? Musharraf - Not at all, there are problems we are facing, there is no doubt at all, there is an internal crisis – mainly a political crisis, and a crisis of misgovernance, weak leadership misgovernance that is leading to this crisis. however I having led this country for about nine years – I know that this country has all the potential, it has all the resources – the only thing it lacks is governance. So I think if we can change this restructure, carry out major reforms and restructuring I have no doubt that all our problem will be gone. Q. 22. Would it be fair to say that after the Quadri - Imran Khan agitation, the Pakistan Army has once again come centre stage. The wings of the PM and his government has been clipped and General Raheel Sharif, as Army Chief has once again has taken Pak Army to the centre of decision making and you now just have a notional PM. is that a fair assessment? Musharraf - No. I think to an extent it is if you are indicating the Pakistan army, yes indeed, it has a role in Pakistan. Every country has its own environment, its own compulsions. In Pakistan the military plays a critical role, that doesn’t mean that it would like to take over and run government. It does in the past whatever examples of military government takeovers are it is been because of the misgovernance by the civil administration or the so called democratic process that has been going on in Pakistan. So therefore the military has a role to play, there is no doubt – it has always been on the centre stage – it has a role to play but that doesn’t mean that they would like to ignore the government or to bypass the government. The government if it gives policies – Pakistan military follows the policies given by the government. Q. 23. General Musharraf, where do you see yourself fitting into the current political situation in Pakistan? Do you as a former president believe that your political innings is over or there still is a part of you that still believe that you will one day retune and lead Pakistan? Musharraf - Rahul, let me very very honestly tell you that I have led this country for nine-ten years and believe me I have not an iota of ambition to be a leader again, to be the president or prime minister of Pakistan. All that I very sincerely believe within myself with conviction, with honesty is that this country must be run well – it has all the potential and all the resources. And when I say the country I mean the people – the welfare of the people, and the development of the state of Pakistan must be done by the government. And if it is not being done and the people are today feeling miserable, their condition is going down by the day and there is no developmental activity going on in Pakistan – my desire is that something has to be done to change this. And in that whoever does it, my backing will be there. Q. 24: What do you think should be done General Musharraf? Who could do it? What do you think need to be done? What do you make of Imran Khan & Quadri? Musharraf - Well, I will not like to comment on people. There are a lot of brilliant people in Pakistan, there are a lot of honest people in Pakistan. Unfortunately our democratic process has not thrown up those honest, those brilliant people into governance and therefore the misgovernance. Now we have to do something and as you are asking what to do – we have to carry out major reforms, major restructuring – that has to be done and we must find out ways to do it and we must find out who can do it. So I am not going to comment on who exactly will be the person nominated to do this but this has to be done; that is the desire of the entire nation of Pakistan. Q. 25: Sir, are you trying through the army to secure a deal so that you can go to Dubai or to New York, like you helped Nawaz Sharif leave when you were in charge? Or do you wish to stay in Pakistan? Musharraf - I came to Pakistan knowing very well what will happen to me. Knowing very well that I will have to face all these cases in the courts. I came back, I am not a person who is scared and running away. I had to take a decision – is it that I am never to come back to Pakistan? I decided no, not at all I had to come back These are my people, my country, my friends, my relatives, my environment. I had to come back, so I came. I knew that I will have to face, I will have to take this plunge one day or the other. now when you are saying that I am delaying, trying to go back, run away – no sir, I am not – my compulsion is only my mother – number one – I must meet her, she is over ninety five, secondly I have a little issue, medical issue that needs to be checked abroad and I want to get that done and then I have a right to earn. I was on my lecture circuits and earning my livelihood – that also is my right so therefore I would like to go out and come back. But if anyone thinks that I want to go back go out never to come back he is sadly mistaken. I am not going out, I want to stay here in Pakistan. Q. 26: What are you making General Musharraf of the sharp rise of the ISIL and what does it mean for rise of terrorism in South Asia? Especially, the day when cadres of Pakistani Taliban has jumped ship and joined ISIL? Musharraf: Well this is a very important question you have asked and I am very glad that you are talking of the region and South Asia now. Yes indeed it can have, it is a dangerous situation developing in the Middle East. It has the potential for destabilising our region. And when I say our region I am meaning Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. So please don’t keep India out of it – it has the potential of destabilising the whole region. Therefore all the more reason we must help each other to fight terrorism and defeat terrorism and also extremism. Extremism is what nourishes and spawns terrorism. We have to fight all that and we are trying to do that we ought to be doing that in Pakistan. And I would suggest India and Afghanistan – in all these region we must understand the nuances of whatever is happening here – whether it is Al Qaeda or Taliban or other elements of terrorism that we are facing then where ISIS or IS stands, they certainly have an agenda that may not be very much in favour of any country of the region. We should analyse this and we must not weaken each other – to be able to confront when the fallout of this IS comes down to our respective areas.
Posted on: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 03:59:16 +0000
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