It is Ndigbo’s turn to produce president after Jonathan – Uwazurike Goddy Uwazurike is a Lagos-based legal practitioner and President, Aka Ikenga, the pan Igbo think-tank organisation. In this interview with Temidayo Akinsuyi, he speaks on 14 years of democratic rule, marginalisation of the Igbo, the development of the South-East, Boko Haram and other issues. Excerpts: Looking at 14 years of democratic journey in the country, can you really say that we have achieved much, in terms of progress and development? Yes, without any fear of contradiction, we have made very significant progress. I can emphasize it because this is the longest stretch of unbroken rule at any time, either by the military or by the civilians. If that is not a positive step, then what is it? Remember that when we got Independence in 1960, within six years Nigeria lost it. When Gowon came, within 9 years, he was out. By the time Babangida and others came with long regimes, none of them stayed up to 14 years in a stretch without something disrupting the process. As far as I know, there is always something that disrupts every government, either civilian or military. So, this is the 14th year of democratic rule and we are still talking of presidential powers, constitution, National Assembly, we must praise ourselves. We have taken a step in the right direction. So, we have something to cheer as a nation. Some Nigerians are saying we should have a brand new constitution that will meet the yearnings of Nigerians rather the current constitution amendment being carried out by the National Assembly. Do you share that view? Those saying that do not themselves know what constitutional law means. By Constitutional law, we have a nation that is defined by the 1999 constitution. To jettison it means to call for a revolution and a revolution means everything we have achieved will be swept away. Revolution also implies going contrary to what the constitution says and the constitution defines that as treason. So, we must understand what it is they are asking for. America has not jettisoned its constitution, they merely amended. We can’t have a brand new constitution; nobody does unless they are calling for a revolution. If you are calling for a revolution, it means the existing legal order must be swept away and once it is swept away what we have is brand new. That is why the French will tell you from monarchy to republic and so on. For a new republic in Nigeria, you always have a new constitution. Remember the First Republic, when it was done away with, Gowon suspended the constitution and replaced it with his own new laws under his own terms. The same goes for all the military governments. When Shagari came, it was called the Second Republic, when Shonekan came, it was the third republic, now in 1999, we call it the 4th republic. In all these ones, they are guided not by the whims and caprices of any person but by what is written in the constitution. It is that constitution that guides us and tells us what to do if we need to make amendments. So, those calling for that change of constitution do not really know what they mean. What is your take on the proposed single tenure for elected public officials? My position actually is that I am always for the six years single tenure but as president of Aka Ikenga, I must go by what my association says. We have not really sat down to review it but whatever will make power go round to all the zones faster than it is going now, I am all for it. That is my view. There is this general belief that the Igbos seem to be keeping quiet about their agitation for an Igbo presidency, do you share this view? There is nothing like Igbo presidency. You can only have a president of Nigeria of Igbo origin. We never had Yoruba president under Obasanjo, we never had Hausa- Fulani president under Yar’adua and we are not having an Ijaw presidency under Jonathan. So why should it be called Igbo presidency? If you are talking about a president of Igbo origin, I will give you an answer and a very straightforward one. We put Jonathan there. He is our cousin and he has not declared his intention. If he does not declare his intention to seek reelection in 2015, believe you me, we will stand up. Our understanding is that after Jonathan, it is our turn. Right now, a lot of people are trying to engineer one form of quarrel or another between us and him. We Igbos will not fall for it. We have our strategies well laid out, so we will wait and see what happens. Some sections of Nigerians are saying they are marginalized in the current political dispensation. As a stakeholder, can you really say that the interests of the Igbo are protected? The first act of marginalization you can think of is the inequality of the states. We have five states in the South East, one zone has seven and the other zones have six each. So, we said for the basis of equality, let us all have seven states. National Assembly has just submitted its report on constitutional amendment and they made it clear that creation of states is not part of their recommendation. In essence, the National Assembly by their action is saying that the inequality must continue and we say that is marginalization. So, we will not agree but continue to agitate until we get what rightfully belongs to us. By the constitutional arrangement, first and foremost, Remember, I said by the very First Act. President Jonathan as a person is the chief executive. He has made some promises. We Igbo are still watching to see how he will perform. We are not among those who will judge him after two years and say he has failed or succeeded. We are telling him he still has two more years. If he takes decision that will protect the interest of the Igbo, we will support him but if he take us for granted, we will withdraw that support. Do you support the call for a Sovereign National Conference? Sovereign national conference and the introduction of a brand new constitution mean the same thing. Sovereignty of Nigeria resides in a people who exercise that sovereignty through the elected representatives. It is there in the constitution. So, as long as there is agitation for sovereign national conference, all they are doing is calling for revolution. You are only asking them not to exercise that sovereignty as it is enshrined in the constitution, right to be exercised by people who derive their mandate not from the constitution by the fact they said I represent this nationality. For instance, one man gets up and says ‘I represent Togolese nationality, therefore I will speak’. Where was he elected? Under what section of the constitution will he speak? So, those calling for a sovereign national conference are calling for a revolution and as far as we are concerned, we have nothing against it. Call it national conference, constitutional conferences or by whatever name you call it, let us make sure that at any time, we should know what we are doing. If you are calling for a revolution, know what it means, if you are calling for a sovereign national conference, know what it means and if you are calling for a national conference which was the type Obasanjo organized when he was tinkering with third term agenda and, if you remember, the National Assembly threw it out because it was just a jamboree. But then if you are talking of something that will upset the existing legal system, then you are calling for a revolution and that is what sovereign national conference means. There is this belief that the Igbo elite seems comfortable with the present arrangement When you talk about the creation of states, it is not President Jonathan’s fault; it is the National Assembly that create states. The president of Ohanaeze has called for it and we in Aka Ikenga are also calling for it, Igbo in Lagos has also called for it, so which elite are we talking about here? You don’t expect a contractor who runs to Abuja to get contract to talk about anything else except money. So, we are the people, the elites who speak for ourselves. Some Nigerians are already singing war songs ahead of 2015, what is your take on that? The way I see politics, I see it as a football game. At the last confederations cup, many people believed that the world champions, Spain, will carry the day, but they were humiliated by Brazil. So, if you look at politics and think of football, then you realize that politics is not mathematics. Football is not mathematics. So, whenever you make this kind of end of discussion statement, you will be holding the wrong hand. President Jonathan is from the Ijaw ethnic nationality and there he is, from a tiny minority group ruling over Nigeria. You have people who come from the three dominant groups. Some are saying if you don’t do what we say, we will not support you. But he is the president and he was elected, he won the primary and then the election. Those who do want him there will say they want to make the country ungovernable. So, you now asked yourself ‘how come he is still ruling despite all these threats?’ So, when they make threats about what will happen and what will not happen in 2015, just take it with a pinch of salt. I believe these ones are just rabble rousers. Whatever will be, will be. The opposition parties are determined to wrest power from the ruling PDP come 2015 with the formation of the All Progressives Congress (APC), are you in support of this? I endorse the emergence of a very strong opposition, a strong opposition that challenges the existing legal order. A strong opposition that tells those in power that they will take over and they will sit up. So, we need that but if you ask me about APC, I will tell you it is still work in progress. I will leave them at that because anything more than that is speculation. When the party is formed, we will know. Remember when you are submitting application for a merger of a new or old parties, the various chairmen will go and surrender their certificates of registration as political parties, not one in APC has done that already. When you are submitting application, you will also submit names of your national officers and their addresses nationwide, so if they have not done that, they have not filled all the offices and they don’t have national officers, they have not fulfilled all the requirements for registration, because they are required to have all. And now they are already accusing INEC of bias when one political group came out and say they are also called APC, everybody went on accusing PDP and INEC of collusion. When INEC said that they have not fulfilled all requirements, they went to court and the matter is still in court as we speak. So, I say goodluck to them but first do everything the law requires. Are you satisfied with the performance of the South East governors, do they take suggestions and advice from you? Also, Will Aka Ikenga support any credible candidate come 2015? That is why we are here. Remember, we are the intellectual arm. We see many things that the ordinary Nigerians will not see. We all have personal interactions with all these people. We can look straight into somebody eyes and tell the world that ‘this man is dishonest’. If you have contempt for Igbo, we know. If you hate Igbo we also know. That is why we are here. So, I will not name any candidate. When the time comes, we will endorse the candidate that people want. As per the performance of the governors, we in Aka Ikenga, we have our means of channeling our views to the governors, so it will not be done on the pages of newspapers. But if you are asking me about the situation of things in the South Eastern states, I tell you the situation has left a lot to be desired. I will pray that the security agents will make the place conducive that people can travel home, rest, do what they want to do peacefully and go back. It is not just in the South East, we want it done all over the country. If they are doing what you are suggesting, remember it is a suggestion. A governor is a number one citizen. If you make a suggestion to him, he is free to take; he also has a choice to jettison it. He may have his views which may clash with the views of House of Assembly. If he is not in control, he will lose. Has emergency declaration stem the tide of bombing and killings in the country? This issue of declaration of emergency is very funny. Before the declaration was made, many loud commentators and critics said if it is Obasanjo era, he would have dethroned all the governors, he would have done this and that. The man now declared a state of emergency, some politicians now came out to say that attack on Boko Haram is an attack on the north and that the state of emergency is meant to ruin the north. Yet, the governor of Borno made a statement that the current leader of Boko Haram is not a Nigerian. Now the propaganda people even went far saying 2,000 houses were razed in Baga. When I heard these figures, I pinched myself. I can’t imagine 2,000 houses because here in Surulere, if you are talking of one street, you have up to 100 houses, then imagine times 20 of that figure in Baga. Then they also told us that a man said some people were killed and mass graves were dug and nobody has seen the man ever since. And somebody said, what is the total population of Baga? And unfortunately, some political parties joined them accusing the JTF of massacre forgetting that the soldiers are the ones facing the bullets of the extremists. In military, it is either you kill me or I kill you. Boko Haram do not wear uniforms, they are deseed like civilians that is why they move in and out freely. Soldiers are shooting at Boko Haram and some people said they are killing civilians. How do you differentiate between a civilian and Boko Haram member in the heat of the battle? If you allow Boko Haram to mingle with you, you are only exposing yourself because the whole of that area will be treated as a battle field. I think Jonathan is doing his job, they should leave him alone. So, politics when you mix it with nationalism, trouble starts. Let us look at the perceived quarrel between President Jonathan and Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State. Do you think it is healthy for our democracy? Is there any quarrel between them? Amaechi is just a governor just as he has local government chairmen all over Rivers State. The relationship between Amaechi and the local government chairmen is the same relationship that exists between President Jonathan and the governors. If Amaechi thinks he is a rival to President Jonathan he is just living in dream world. The newspapers carried all sorts of news last week about both men meeting at the airport and having handshake and I laughed. Amaechi has always received the president at the airport and will always see him off. Whenever a president visits a state, the governor will be the one to receive him, if he is not around, then the deputy takes care of that. It is not a minister, commissioner or a senator that does that, it is always the governor. The state is immaterial. What Amaechi did was to do what is expected of him but the media consultant quickly went and twisted the story to mean what it is not. This entire NGF crisis is just nothing but nuisance value to the polity. If 36 governors cannot agree on who will chair their meeting that is their business. Is there any constitutional provision for the governors’ forum? None. It is just a group of people who meet monthly to share money otherwise call state allocation. And when they want to go and intimidate the president, they go as a group. But right now, they don’t have unity among themselves and they are blaming the president for that.
Posted on: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 10:47:47 +0000
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