Let me see if I can post my response to this meme ( FB isnt letting me post it on Jareds page): At the risk of opening a big can of worms (or a TL;DR): let me clear some things up. Jared, I agree with you. If someone said I dont care what historic consensus says about the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, because its all one big conspiracy by Christian scholars, that WOULD be crazy. That is grossly, manifestly untrue. That has never been my position, as I hope I made clear in “Nailed”. And I HAVE argued against fringe mythicists who say equally ridiculous things, both here on FB and in print. I DO think that the majority of bible scholars have a bias against myth theory; in fact, I know they do because this year my research team surveyed every college and university in America with a biblical studies dept. But think about it: that’s only because most of them are believers. I would never call that a “conspiracy” – it’s just Christians being Christians. What else COULD they say? But in actuality, I spend the vast portion of my research time listening to what the secular historicists like Bart Ehrman say, since for the most part the secular biblical scholars are the only ones we can take seriously anyway. They certainly seem to be the only ones doing any real work in the field! Not that my opinion (or for that matter, my credentials) are anything special; as I said in “Nailed,” this is not about me; these are not my ideas (okay, maybe three of them are); many aren’t even particularly new ideas. I‘m just a field reporter; I’m not a cutting edge scholar like those I cite. (Though for the record, even so, my book WAS multiply peer–reviewed, and corrections dutifully made in light of that peer-review process. Incidentally, I also speak about Jesus Mythicism to Christians and other semi-hostile audiences, quite often) The fact is, passionate atheists like yourself who reject mythicist theory are the audience I’m writing to in my new book, “Jesus: Mything in Action.” Because there are plenty of crackpot myth theories that should be rejected - but not all… I should point out that the analogy between the magnitude of evidentiary support for the scientific consensus for evolution and that of the historical consensus for Jesus’ historicity isn’t quite apt (that is, we have multiple, well-established lines of proof of evolution, but our evidence for any first century Judean figure like Jesus is nowhere near as well-founded). But even if we ignore the problematic apples-to- oranges comparison for a moment: The fact is, serious mythicists are NOT bucking the consensus. In fact, one of the problems with historicity theory is that there IS no consensus of who or what Jesus was – and never has been. But more to the point, the arguments mythicist scholars employ aren’t fringe notions; most have been the majority opinion for over two centuries (such as the Synoptic Problem, Markan Priority, etc.). It’s only our ultimate conclusion that goes further than the current consensus (and of course, so many of the same conclusions widely accepted today by historians used to be considered just as radical by the consensus back in the day). Even our criticisms of the flawed methodologies and the many other serious problems in the field of Jesus studies are shared by both Christian and secular scholars, and both historicists and Mythicists alike. And you don’t have to take my word for it: Listen to these scholars, both believers and atheists and most of them historicists, who have harsh criticism for the state of biblical studies and Jesus studies in particular: - Historicist Phillip Davies’s reaction to Bart Ehrman captures my feelings exactly (and do bear in mind I am a huge Bart Ehrman fan) bibleinterp/opeds/dav368029.shtml - Christians Anthony Le Donne and Chris Keith showcase a range of biblical scholars complaining about the deep and ongoing problems of Jesus studies, including Morna Hooker who first raised the alarm 40+ years ago, and points back to earlier historians from 80+ years with the same complaints! amazon/Jesus-Criteria-Demise-Authenticity-Chris/dp/0567377237 - Thomas Thompson & Thomas Verenna’s book “Is This Not the Carpenter?” also gathers a collection of international scholars with serious things to say about the historicity issue from both sides of the argument. amazon/This-Not-Carpenter-Historicity-International/dp/1844657299/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408893307&sr=1-1&keywords=is+this+not+the+carpenter+the+question+of+the+historicity+of+the+figure+of+jesus - Another historicist is Fernando Bermejo-Rubio, who nonetheless argues that the consensus in the field of Jesus scholarship is based on wrong assumptions, and too often enforced by fear for tenure and backlash, and criticizes how 200 years + of biblical history has been warped to serve theological, not historical concerns: lgdata.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws/docs/350/189160/%28A%29The_Fiction_of_the_%E2%80%98Three_Quests%E2%80%99-.pdf - And finally, Biblical Historian Hector Avalos’ devastating book The End of Biblical Studies calls for just that; he makes a convincing case that the entire field of Biblical Studies – his field – has lost all relevance and only serves to prop up religious dogma that has become transparently unfeasible. For our purposes here, see esp. his chapter on the failure of Historical Jesus studies. amazon/End-Biblical-Studies-Hector-Avalos-ebook/dp/B003N642CK/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408893375&sr=1-1&keywords=the+end+of+biblical+studies As these and an increasing number of other mainstream scholars have been telling everyone for over a half century now, the entire field of Jesus studies has been in crisis, has failed to find the “real” Jesus, and that unhappy result may never change (and yes, please do see my next book for details). We need to face the fact that none of our sources are primary to Jesus, none are contemporary to Jesus, and ALL of them are deeply problematic. And even if there WAS a real Jesus of Nazareth, the only thing anyone can honestly and definitively say about that figure is that we don’t know, and we may never have, a single verifiable fact about his life. What so many fail to realize is this is not a war between historicists and mythicists; it’s between the scholars (historicists and mythicists alike) who think that mythicist theory is worth taking seriously, whether they think it’s the right answer or not – and those that reject it out of hand. Listen: believe me, I get that for a lot of skeptics, myth theory sets off all their red flags. It should! Like I said, there’s a lot of crazy-ass half-baked bullshit myth theory out there; but serious mythicists despise them just as much as the historicists do (e.g., Joseph Atwill’s idiotic “Jesus was a Roman Invention” theory springs to mind); they just make our job harder. And I certainly don’t expect anybody to take my word on any of this. But I do hope readers will consider reading the arguments in the book and the arguments from the other side before they weigh in on either side of the debate. At the end of the day, it’s fine with me if you, or Bart Ehrman, or anyone else, takes a different position than mine. Disagreements like this are a regular part of academic progress. And if it turns out my side is wrong, maybe someone like you will change my mind again – because I certainly didn’t start out as a mythicist. And btw, I don’t particularly enjoy being part of a scholarly minority, but at the moment I don’t really have much choice. It’s the only position on the issue I find credible. Still, if I have any agenda at all to push, it’s that at the very least skeptical atheist readers like you will come away from the book appreciating all the underlying issues and problems a little better, and perhaps lean more towards agnosticism on the Historical Jesus issue. And hey, if after you read the new book you STILL think I’m woefully inaccurate on Jesus, that’s fine, too. Perhaps you’ll like my book on the Mormons better. Even the Christians seem to think my research skills improved dramatically on that book… All the best, -DF
Posted on: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 16:08:34 +0000
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