This interview was recorded in April 2010 Steve Rowe talks to Shi Kon martial artist and doorman Dennis Jones… SR Hi Dennis, in our conversations, we often get back to the qualities of courage, resolve and determination, it seems that most people nowadays have a life consumed with work, money and the pressures of domestic life and the ‘heroes’ are fast disappearing…. Our recent articles on the relationship between ‘discriminating mind’ and ‘cowardice’ caused a lot of interest, why do you think that is? DJ Discriminating mind and cowardice are interesting subjects, you’re right that most people nowadays are bogged down with a mundane life and not really put under the kind of pressures that we are on the door or that were more common in the past. I think that therefore many people are intrigued by the question of how they would react under the kind of pressures that we have had to face. There is also a gender factor involved. If you put a handgun on the table and your male friends came in they would be intrigued by the gun, want to handle it and look at the ammunition. Most women wouldn’t do that. The subjects that we discuss tend to touch a primal part of the male (and in some cases the female) psyche, society tends to cover this aspect up with a veneer of ‘civilisation’ but our discussions reach down and open up this sense of wonder at these qualities. SR When I meet with your friends we spend a lot of time talking about courage and different aspects of ‘dealing’ with people. In fact we usually discuss the approach to a situation and how it takes precedence over the actual physical confrontation. Can you explain to the readers why? DJ Yeah…. No technique has any value without intention. Technique is your ‘back up’. First of all your opponent is going to ‘take your measure’ he’s going to be judging you by a criteria that even he doesn’t think consciously about, he’ll be subconsciously recording your eye and mouth movements, how your jaw goes, whether the backs of your knees are trembling, whether you slur your speech, how you’re breathing and so on, all these things will determine how he’s going to deal with you. In the book ‘Hagakure’ which outlines the code of the samurai, you will notice that it doesn’t contain any martial art techniques, what it does is to give guidance on how to deal with various types of situation. When you listen to doormen talking, it’s all about courage, when I first started 25 years ago after a situation you would hear “I didn’t lose my bottle” or “I didn’t back off” or “we stood together”, that was the most important factor to them and I feel that it’s a primitive, tribal urge in mankind. You can’t see courage. When you look in the Dojo, you can see people that are good at sparring and technique, but it’s not the same thing. It seems to be a character trait of those rare individuals who will go forward when others slide backward in a real confrontation. When I look at the modern ‘martial artist’ I see the American ‘extreme martial artists’ who have a six pack, shiny teeth, a pony tail and can do the splits, jump and spin with ease and even the modern shaolin artists who have the same sort of abilities and their own ‘image’ – their physical (acrobatic) abilities are excellent, but as I said before – it’s only back up. Courage comes first, it has to be developed, old warrior codes like Hagakure and the Book of Five Rings outline the ways to train this. They categorise codes of behaviour, ways of acting where you are constantly reminded to develop courage. SR I teach that spirit comes first, power second and technique third, I guess it’s the same thing. DJ That’s right! It’s not what we used to think, that spirit is how long and hard you can kiai…. The spirit of a person cannot be quantified until the time it really counts – and when you witness it, your own spirit feels lifted. It’s special. SR I have to agree. When I worked in both the fire service and the security world, having the right team around you was vital. You really valued the ‘proper people’. That’s also why I value friendship so much. DJ I agree – to have someone who will not lie to you as a friend is priceless. You are bound by your resolve. It’s interesting that the Japanese regard the story of the 47 Ronin as an example of courage, the actual story itself is very moving… SR Let me briefly relate the story to our readers in case they don’t know it…. The tale of the Forty-Seven Ronin (or Forty-Seven Samurai,also known as the Akō vendetta) recounts the most famous case of the samurai code of honor, bushido. It captures the essence of the Japanese world-view better than any other single work. Briefly, a group of samurai were left leaderless after their master was forced to commit seppuku (ritual suicide) for assaulting a court official, after being insulted by him. They avenged him by killing the court official, after patiently waiting and planning for over a year. In turn, they were themselves forced to commit seppuku for committing the crime of murder, as they had known they would be—the tale being about the honorable fulfillment of duty, especially to an honorable leader. DJ The author of ‘Hagakure’ actually criticized them! He said that there was a long delay between the time their lord was struck down and the time it took them to kill the enemy. He said that “if Lord Kira had died of illness within that period, it would have been extremely regrettable.” Despite the fact that they were being closely watched, he feels that the retainers should have taken revenge immediately. The samurai were brought up to believe that revenge should be instant. In hagakure Lord Naoshige said: “The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. In the way of the Samurai, if one uses discrimination, he will fall behind. One needs neither loyalty or devotion, but simply to become desperate in the way. Loyalty and devotion are themselves within desperation.” It also says that “In just refusing to retreat from something one gains the strength of two men. Something that is not done at that time and place will remain unfinished for a lifetime.” It goes on to say “Stamp quickly and pass through a wall of iron. To quickly break in and stamp through directly is the first step to celerity.” So despite the risks involved, they were instructed to act instantly. The 47 Ronin are widely celebrated in Japan and yet they appear to have acted contrary to their own code! SR To many, these concepts have no relevance today, but we know they have. So how are you going to tie this up in an understandable way for the readers in the 21st century? You wouldn’t by any chance have a story? DJ (Laughs) Like the 47 Ronin? Not exactly, but….. Years ago I was working at a nightclub and a guy called ‘Les’ a big bully, came up to the door with a few friends. When he went to walk past me I said “No Les you can’t come in.” He gave me a hard time as he used to bully me years before when I was at school. I held my resolve and wouldn’t let him in. He gave me a load of abuse and left. About a quarter to one (we closed at one) he came out from inside the club and demanded his money back! Someone had obviously let him in through the fire escape and he was taking me for an idiot. I asked him if he hadn’t enjoyed himself and he said “no, it was absolute crap and I want my money back now!” I turned to the manager and told him to give him a refund, which he reluctantly did and Les walked away. The following week, Les came back to the door and I was ready for him. I focused and said “you ain’t coming in” and he said “why not” and I said “you know why and you ain’t ******* coming in, you said it was crap last week and so you ain’t coming in now!” I was ready to ‘perform an act of extreme violence’ on him and was totally focused and ready, there was no way in my mind that I was going to be defeated. One flinch from him and I would have ‘stamped quickly and gone through a wall of iron’. He looked at me and could see my will, “didn’t want to go in anyway” he muttered and sauntered off. Why did I give him his money back the first time? If I allowed my ego to dominate, I could say that I was working a strategy and I gave him the money to prevent a conflict at the wrong time, no one got hurt and I could deal with him later. The author of hagakure might say that I lost my courage for a moment – been caught on the back foot and reverted back to the bullied child and lost it. It’s easy to make excuses. I thought about it all week and did what the 47 Ronin had done and took my revenge the following week, but what if Les hadn’t come back? After dealing with him, I didn’t see him again for about 7 years and after that only twice more. SR So looking back on that incident, do you think that you should have done something when he asked for his money back? DJ As an older man now, I would probably deal with it the same way I did then, but for different reasons. As a younger man, I made the right choice, but not through wisdom, but maybe through fear. If I did it through fear, was it the right decision? Should I have done what it said in ‘hagakure’ and ‘stamped quickly and gone through a wall of iron’? SR Very zenic Dennis…… I’ll leave that one with the readers…..
Posted on: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 08:13:01 +0000
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