This thread is still being edited Yoruba Philosophy of Hair and the Head II Kareem Adetola Yusuf Otunba Isiaka Owolabi Nice 1. May ur dayz be long ma. 21 January at 15:52 · Unlike · 1 Shittu Fowora So you took your hairs off? Okay o 21 January at 15:54 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju In the Adeyinka Olarinmoye : History and Cosmos journal, of which vol. 1. no. 1 will soon be fully ready, i title these recurrent representations of her image by Adeyinka Aesthetic Reinventions- Adeyinka Olarinmoyes foregrounding of her aesthetic qualities 21 January at 16:02 · Like · 1 Folasade Sheba-Aluko Haaaaahaaa, ur hair ?. Nice new look though. 21 January at 16:18 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju What is the connection btw the proverb and the idea related to it in the post? 21 January at 16:20 · Like · 3 Adeyinka Olarinmoye Ashaddy, that was taken mid last year. 21 January at 16:37 · Like Adeyinka Olarinmoye This is taken 1hr ago. In my office. I used that pic with the proverb because of the hair mentioned in it. My hair in the pic is sharp. Adeyinka Olarinmoyes photo. 21 January at 17:03 · Edited · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju na wa! haba! no take picture kill us! 21 January at 17:00 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju give us more of this recent office look, from various angles. 21 January at 17:01 · Like · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju The connection between the proverb and the pic is clear. Its the connection between the statement made before the proverb and the proverb that is not obvious. 21 January at 17:30 · Like Adeyinka Olarinmoye The proverb is used to affirm the need for people or object placed in high esteem to continue to maintain such position. Because at every point in time, the hair must grow back on the head whenever shaven. 21 January at 17:48 · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Beautiful. I think I get it. It seems you are interpreting the proverb to suggest that a human being should be as creatively constant as a regenerative principle of nature, as represented by hair growing back after it has been cut. It seems a similar correlation between nature and human action is employed in Yoruba incantations. Such incantations seem to be used as a means of drawing upon the creative power of speech in mobilising ase, creative cosmic force emanating from Olodumare, the creator, directing that force to the achievement of a goal by recalling the activity of this force in nature as it enables existence and change, being and becoming. Rowland Abiodun has a couple of essays on this in relation to artistic creativity: Àṣẹ: Verbalizing and Visualizing Creative Power through Art and Understanding Yoruba Art and Aesthetics : The Concept of Ase the essays complementing each other, but Verbalizing and Visualizing Creative Power seeming to be particularly splendid. By invoking the power that enables the activity of nature, one may make possible that which is not conventionally known to happen in nature, a miracle, more or less, might be the logic there. Could this suggest or be based on a philosophy of nature, in which what might seem impossible is made or enabled to happen by directing the power evident in nature to actions not conventionally taken by nature or to restore situations to their natural state, such as illness to health? May one further develop a philosophy of action from the complex of ideas emerging from the proverb and its interpretation presented here? Perhaps one could use the proverb and the interpretation you placed with it as a means of positive affirmation. Does the line on steadfastness in upliftment you stated before the proverb come with the proverb or is it an interpretation you or someone else made? 21 January at 19:44 · Edited · Like · 3 Adeyinka Olarinmoye Its an interpretation the Yoruba people had given to it. And permit me to say that thats one brilliant submission youve got up there. Yes, Yoruba have used nature to understand the workings of their social space. Likewise nature is constantly employed in their rituals and belief system. 21 January at 18:26 · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Wonderful. Thanks for the praise. We are having a rich time here. I particularly like this : Yes, Yoruba have used nature to understand the workings of their social space. Various great philosophers, such as the Chinese thinker Lao Tzu, based their understanding on nature, in relation to the traditional knowedge of their societies. The magnificent Indian Upanishands presents a view of nature as alive with a force of creativity and consciousness similar to the Yoruba ase, a force linking the human being, nature and the source of existence. This earth is the honey of all beings; all beings the honey of this earth. The bright eternal Self that is in earth, the bright eternal Self that lives in this body, are one and the same; that is immortality, that is Spirit, that is all. Water is the honey of all beings; all beings the honey of water. The bright eternal Self that is in water, the bright eternal Self that lives in human seed, are one and the same; that is immortality, that is Spirit, that is all. Fire is the honey of all beings; all beings the honey of fire. The bright eternal Self that is in fire, the bright eternal Self that lives in speech, are one and the same; that is immortality, that is Spirit, that is all. Wind is the honey of all beings; all beings the honey of wind. The bright eternal Self that is in wind, the bright eternal Self that lives in breath, are one and the same; that is immortality, that is Spirit, that is all. -so states the Brihadaranyaka-Upanishad in the W.B.Yeats and Purohit Swami translation : holybooks/.../The-Ten-Principal-Upanishads.... 113-135. It would be helpful for contemporary Africans to do something similar to what various peoples have achieved along the lines of studying nature in relation to human being and possibility. One could relate this discourse emerging from a picture of Adeyinka Olarinmoyes hair in relation to a proverb linking hair and human possibility to the philosophy of hair in classical Yoruba thought, exemplified, for example, by Babatunde Lawals wonderful essay on the subject : Orilonise: The Hermeneutics of the Head and Hairstyles among the Yoruba. 21 January at 19:34 · Edited · Like · 2 Adeyinka Olarinmoye Lolest lol! Egbon Salard, na the other places wey you know you go talk na. The head hair is as constant as the northern star. Abi? Just confirming the proverb ni o! 21 January at 20:49 · Unlike · 1 Shango Child Wow 21 January at 21:13 · Unlike · 2 Kareem Adetola Yusuf @adeyinka olarinmoye, just has yinkasalard postulated,there are many part that grew hair. It should be noted that ori that they mean is not literary head,but God. The concept ori, have many usage,but the usage determines the meaning. 21 January at 22:05 · Unlike · 2 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Consider this, ori lababó,a ba forisá sile, nigba ti ori ngbeni, nibo lorisá wà? The usage of ori hair means God,but when they said, ori ni eja fi nla ibu ja, it simply refer to literary head. 21 January at 22:09 · Unlike · 2 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Also, yorubas also use the term for a leader or people at the top of organizational structural. Do u know that Orisá or Orisha(prophet) simply means God chosen? And not head chosen. Orunmila said, éeyán ni ndi orisha .....so, the ori they mean is God. 21 January at 22:16 · Unlike · 2 Nduka Otiono Lovely... 22 January at 02:57 · Like · 1 Olowodugba Sunday Looking good 22 January at 05:10 · Like · 1 Adeyinka Olarinmoye The Yoruba people must have been aware that there are indeed other parts of the body that grow hairs. But the head is the focus here. The leadership quality of persistency is what the Proverb is describing in relations to ........where we call the head is where the hair grow. Of course, Im aware of the interchangable use of head to mean God. Words in Yoruba language are used in context. One word could mean several things depending on the context and circumstances. Pele lako o labo....... Sorry has the male and female types! This phrase simply means you may mean or dont mean yourre sorry. 22 January at 08:19 · Edited · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju I am very excited by Kareem Adetola Yusufs contribution. Could we please have a line by line translation of those wonderful Yoruba lines? From what I can understand of them, in relation to the point being made by Kareem, such a translation will help us greatly to milk every drop of meaning from them, meaning that might require an essay or even a book to elucidate. 22 January at 09:24 · Like · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Ori lababo,aba forisá sile, nigba tori ngbeni,ni bo lorisha- The only person that deserve our worship is God,and not the prophets. Where are the prophets when God favoured people that needs favour? 22 January at 10:44 · Unlike · 2 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Ori leja fi nla ibu ja- fishes find their ways in the marine world with the effect of their heads. Ori eni lo ngbe alawo re ko eni- good priest are encountered through the help of God. 22 January at 10:49 · Like · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Olodumare bless you, Kareem. Please fire on with your translations. 22 January at 10:51 · Like · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Ori eni ajiki, Ori eni ajige- God is the first person we wake up to greet, and celebrate. 22 January at 10:53 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju thank you, bro. 22 January at 10:54 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju After you give the last translation, I would like to come in with some questions. 22 January at 10:56 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf @Oluwatoyin, Ase o!!! Ire gbogbo aje tiwo ati gbogbo ara ,ore ati ojulo mo re o. Ase 22 January at 10:59 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Go ahead and ask your question. 22 January at 10:59 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Thank you very much, Kareem. 1st-please translate your last lines in Yoruba. They sound wonderful. 2nd- please give us the translation of the proverb you wrote ealier involving a fish. I would like to ask my qs after these. 22 January at 11:05 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Orisha loni abà, eledumare loni Ase - its the responsibility of prophet to make suggestion(prophecy), but consent lies with God. 22 January at 11:09 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Thanks, Kareem. 22 January at 11:10 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Ori ni eja fi nla ibu ja, ori mi gbemi de ebute ayo- fishes find their ways in the bigger stream with the effective use of head, God help me to get to my glorious destination. 22 January at 11:17 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Eeyan lo ndi orisa - is human being that becomes prophet. Ori lafi nyo eran lawo- its through God favour that we can pick good meat from the pot. Awo that they mean is not serving place,but old yoruba cooking pot make from mod. 22 January at 11:21 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf You can quote the exact line you want me to interprete and explain 22 January at 11:23 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Can u ask ur question now? 22 January at 11:25 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju thanks 22 January at 11:26 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju I am puzzled about why you translate ori as God and orisa as prophets. 22 January at 11:29 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Hmmmm! The problem will have is that some of yoruba words cannot be express with english words. Put i will juxtapose some of my argument with bible. 22 January at 11:33 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Help me understand this please- Put i will juxtapose some of my argument with bible. 22 January at 11:36 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Is only the yorubas that do hold their head to plead for something from God. Parents will said, Oje ba ori e soro,ki oso ibi ti oma gba fun e- you better talk to your God,so that he can lead you wish way to go definately,is not thead on our neck. 22 January at 11:38 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Got you, Kareem, but if I might say, ori in Yoruba/Orisa cosmology is broader than your interpretation, according to authoritative sources. I could present my understanding of this. 22 January at 11:45 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Not all prophet are meant to teach the part to God,but for special assignment to help humanity. Yorubas in their own wisdom discovered that is only those God chose from the congregation of people for a mission that will set standard for others to follow. 22 January at 11:47 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Oluwatoyin, let me give u an example, there was a man who suddenly has leprosy,and he was barnished to the outskirt of the town,and his wiff join hin. In the course of his sojourn in the wilderness,he discover the techniques of farming to av huge harvest. 22 January at 11:51 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Suddenly, God grant him miraculous healings. When he get back to the town and continue with the techniques. When people discovered that his harvest cannot be compete with, they said ori lo sha eni yi soto fun ere oko. Forming orisha Oko. 22 January at 11:53 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf That is the way we come about orisha oko. 22 January at 11:54 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Many of yoruba words are now polluted because of christian believe and islamic believe. We now speak two kind of yorubas. Majority of people you called authorities are christians or muslims that avoid ifa or anything Orisha,so we have wrong meanings. 22 January at 11:56 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Thanks, Kareem. Please continue. 22 January at 11:58 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Paul said, he has been seperated from his mothers womb to serve christ, so, he is a minor prophet under christ. 22 January at 11:58 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf To have a good understanding of who Orisha is, Orunmila was asked, who is Orisha? And he said, eeyan lo ndi orisha,eni togbon sese,toni imo eledumare la npe ni irumole. 22 January at 12:00 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju flow on bro.Please translate 22 January at 12:01 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf So, look at the case of paul, if it was to be in yorubaland, paul will becomes of of the minor Orisha. Orisha are not idols. Idols are just pictures that yorubas conceptualize to represent those prophet for remembrance purposes. 22 January at 12:03 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju thanks, Kareem. A valuable perspective 22 January at 12:05 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf You are welcome. I was actually receiving a call. 22 January at 12:29 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Oluwatoyin, do you know that there are two sangos? One is original,and the other one is imitator whose real name is jakuta,born to Oranmiyan by a nupe. Sango jakuta is the immediate brother of Ajaka. 22 January at 12:33 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Thanks I am aware of those two names, Sango and Jakuta, but dont know much of their inter-relationship 22 January at 12:35 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Yet, he become a minor Orisha through is work during is reign as Alaafin,but he is not the one traditionalist followed. 22 January at 12:35 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju hmmmm....deification.... 22 January at 12:35 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Real sango is a contemporary of Orunmila, Esu-elegbara,Ogun, Obatala etc,and he was born by iyemeja,while sango jakuta was born by a nupe woman to Oranmiyan.Sango enter the ground at koso,while jakuta actually hang himself cos of Gbonka threat to his life 22 January at 12:40 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Sorry, i intend writing his,and not is. 22 January at 12:41 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Im following you, Kareem 22 January at 12:41 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Oluwatoyin, we will continue to have problem the more we try to define some yoruba words with british terms . No british terms can encapsulate the term, eledumare,because the term God is just a microcosm of Eledumare,and not is equal. 22 January at 12:47 · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wow, Kareem i beg, help me understand this- the term God is just a microcosm of Eledumare,and not is equal 22 January at 12:51 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Hmmmm! Eledumare is a coinage of three distinct yoruba words. Eni/oni- owner,odun -secret/mysticals forces, Aåré - stranger. So, when our forebearers look at the world,and the mystery there in, they concluded that,the creator of this world is the....... 22 January at 13:01 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Owner of the sacred world and forces,who understand we strangers that dwell in it than ourselves. So, we concluded that he is Eledumare/Olodumare depending on which kind of yoruba you speaks. 22 January at 13:03 · Unlike · 2 Adeyinka Olarinmoye Kareem! Only if you know what your posts are doing to me....... Im in my office with a cup of coffee under a blowing ac......wow! Biss. 22 January at 13:05 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju I prostrate to to this demonstration of knowledge on Olodumare, Kareem. 22 January at 13:06 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf For example,ijebus look at creation,and concluded that henceforth they are omo alaré- children of the person that create the world and everything therein. We ijebus called ourselves omo Alaré.No human being is called Alare. Other yorubas we say onitohun 22 January at 13:08 · Unlike · 1 Folasade Sheba-Aluko Really. Eledunmare. Waohhh nd really Yoruba has got d best name for God. Indeed Eledumare 22 January at 13:10 · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju How do we get people outside Adeyinka Olarinmoyes friends to read these lovely discussions? Dont they deserve a wider and even global circulation, and even inter-planetary circulation, if that is possible, so they can help non-earthlings understand human cultures? 22 January at 13:11 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Ah! Prof, i am your small boy,an ND holder in Accountancy. Stop playing me @adeyinka and Oluwatoyin 22 January at 13:12 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Kareem, I BEG FIRE ON...Olodumare bless you... 22 January at 13:13 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju What does onitohun mean? 22 January at 13:13 · Like Adeyinka Olarinmoye Kareem, knowledge is no respecter of age, status and gender. Im cool with you and my boss, Oluwatoyin. 22 January at 13:18 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf @Oluwatoyin, many knowledge will die with those that God granted the wisdom to understand many things that traditionalist dont even comprehend because of religious bigot and descrimination of many again our culture and knowledge of God. 22 January at 13:18 · Unlike · 2 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju hmmm. 22 January at 13:19 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju please help me understand you Kareem, on that last point 22 January at 13:20 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Otitohun means that person. For example, if somebody harm another person, yoruba will onitohun yen o sere rara o ie that person that harm his fellow did not do it right at all. Eeyan is generic while onitohun is specific 22 January at 13:22 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju thanks 22 January at 13:25 · Like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju i have some qs on your translations, Kareem 22 January at 13:26 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Sorry, yorubas will said, onitohun yen o se ré rara,tabi onitohun yen o nse eeyan rara o. I.e that person did not do good at all. Or that person is not a human being at all. 22 January at 13:28 · Unlike · 1 Kareem Adetola Yusuf Go ahead 22 January at 13:29 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Got it, on onitohun 22 January at 13:29 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Am paying attention 22 January at 13:32 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju thanks. writing it out carefully 22 January at 13:32 · Like Kareem Adetola Yusuf Oh! Do you now understand me? 22 January at 13:34 · Unlike · 1 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju I find your description of the Olodumare concept to be wonderful. I am also struck by your quotation of Yoruba proverbs that indicate the various aspects of relationship between ori and orisa as well as the idea of orisa as being deified human beings. I get the impression, though, that your presentation of ori does not address the range of its presentation in Yoruba studies. To better address that question- I want to ask you- what relationship do you see between Ori and Olodumare? Please let me know if I need to clarify my question. 22 January at 13:39 · Edited · Like
Posted on: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 17:36:35 +0000
Trending Topics
Recently Viewed Topics
© 2015