Transcripts of the talk with Erroll Gelardin with Ayla Çetinkaya on the Turkish TV channel Cine5 at “Bi’ Konusmak Lazim” (We Need to Have a Talk): Ayla Çetinkaya: I usually have colorful guests. My guest of today has come from rather far away. There are some subjects that we have been talking about for centuries now, but never openly. One of those has been the Sabbatean Movement and the Sabbateans. My guest is Erroll Gelardin, the author of the book The Sabbatean about the known and the unknown facts about the Sabbatean. Did I pronounce your name properly? Erroll Gelardin: In Turkish the “G” is pronounced as the “G” in “Gary” but the “G” in my name should be pronounced as the “J” in “Japan”, as it is American English. Also, unlike “Erol” in Turkish, my first name has two R’s and two L’s. If I wrote my name as “Erol” it would be pronounced as “Earl” at U.S.A. AÇ: Then how do I call you? Mr. Erroll? EG: That would be okay, but I’d rather you call me just Erroll. AÇ: Alright then. Welcome to my show! EG: Thank you. AÇ: You published a book called The Sabbatean; first, I wish to show the cover of the book to our audience. However we don’t have the whole book here. Why not? Could you explain this? EG: Because the book was not printed on time for the International Izmir Fair that is ongoing right now. I was able to have only 25 books printed for the fair. I had a book-signing scheduled at the fair, so all the printed books were sent to Izmir. AÇ: I thought that it was printed on Tuesday. EG: That was the plan, but they could not manage to have it printed by Tuesday. The book will be out in the coming Thursday. In Turkey, everything does not go according to plan. AÇ: OK. So you had 25 books printed and you distributed them at the fair. And it will officially be published on Thursday. Would you like to explain why you wrote a book called The Sabbatean? That’s how I wish to start our chat. EG: First I would like to explain why I have been writing books. Would you like me to start with that? AÇ: Alright. EG: I had intestinal cancer. They removed half of my intestine, and they never gave it back to me. They probably ate it themselves. After that, I underwent chemotherapy, which caused a major state of fatigue in me. I had to stay at home for six months. I had nothing else to do. I sat before my laptop and I started to write books. My books began to be published; they received positive reviews. I was thus even more keyed up and I felt the need to make deeper research on the subjects I intended to write about. Researching is a very self-satisfying process. What kind of research was I making? I was and still am researching ancient history. History has always been written by the victors. I was searching for the history of the defeated. When those two histories would clash, there would be a spark, and I especially wish to create that spark. Thus, as I assumed I was a Turk, as I was born in Turkey, and although I am a Jew, but not of the Judaic religion… Maybe I should first point out the difference between being only a Jew and being a Judaic. Jews are the descendants of the Tribe of Judah and a Judaic Jew is a Jew that believes in the religion of Moses, the religion of Israel. Thus, I am a Jew but not a Judaic Jew. I am an atheist. That is why my research style is not restricted by religious considerations. I wish to research everything down to the roots. Why did I encounter Sabbateanism? It attracted my attention exactly because of the volatility of religion. Judaism is divided into four. There are the Orthodox Jews, like the ones in Turkey; there are the Conservative Jews, who are a small part of the Ashkenazi Jews; there is the Reformist Judaism, the largest agglomeration, practiced by 76% of the Jews; and the 2-3% of the Jews are Humanist Jews. The Humanist Jews are atheistic Jews, like me. Just the same, we are Jews, too, as we are descendants of the Tribe of Judah. The Azerbaijani Turks had converted to Judaism but they weren’t Jews, because they had no relation with the Tribe of Judah. They just had accepted the Judaic religion. Now, if you ask the Orthodox Jews, they would say that the religion of Judaism and the Jews are inseparable. That’s a lie. That’s what they think. This was how I encountered the Sabbateans conflict during my research. Why did these people ostracize Sabbatai Zevi? When the Sabbateans wanted to return to Judaism, they were not accepted. Why? They regarded the Sabbateans as bastards. It was claimed that the Sabbateans practiced immoral activities, and who went to bed with whom was never known for sure. Therefore all their children were bastards. AÇ: Please that obscene word shouldn’t be uttered during the broadcast. We should be careful. EG: Ok. I shall be careful and not pronounce that word. So, the utterer of that word becomes one of them. Then how do I explain this? AÇ: We just say that the Jews do not accept the Sabbateans. EG: Ok. They are not accepted, whereas the Reformist Jews….What did Sabbatai Zevi want? To reform the religion. He wanted to prove that some parts of the written religion were obsolete. The religion of Judaism was written at Babylon. They convened at Babylon and wrote a book: the Talmud. Those who had written this Talmud, had written it as God. However, I believe that this book was written by humans; if it had been written by God, God would have written it Himself. Humans are writing a book in the name of another; then they say that “if you do not accept this book, you are no good.” No way! I started to research the reason why they had made this claim. The purpose of Sabbatai Zevi, if I am allowed to repeat, was to part company from this bigoted Judaism, and make new reforms. He claimed that some of the religious beliefs were illogical. The phrase he used was “Tikun Olam”, which means “repairing the world”. Of course, the orthodox Jews were not happy with these ideas. So, what did they do? They went and informed the Sultan against Zevi. They denounced Zevi as an anarchist. But, Zevi was an intelligent man, very intelligent. He knew that the Jews had informed the Consul of Rome against Jesus Christ, claiming that he was a terrorist and an anarchist and thus they had him murdered. The Consul had Jesus crucified. So when the Sultan told Zevi that he would spare his life if he converted to Islam, Zevi instantly accepted. Zevi knew that according to Judaism, he who was born as a Jew, would die as a Jew. AÇ: Sabbatai Zevi had claimed that he was a Messiah, hadn’t he? EG: Yes, he had. Now that was how he claimed he was a Messiah. There is the word Jehovah, which means God; it is God’s name. That is what the Jews call God. The vocalization of YHWH (Yahweh), the proper version of God’s name, was forbidden. This name could only be vocalized in public, by the Messiah. Now, I just vocalized YHWH; am I a Messiah? I am not. He also vocalized it. Was he a Messiah? No, or maybe yes. It all depends on you, on what you believe. Why does it depend on your belief? AÇ: Now, according to what is written, and as you are the researcher, you will be correcting the clichés. EG: I will correct the clichés in terms of my interpretation of the issue. AÇ: Of course; in terms of your own interpretation. EG: My interpretation does not have to be the correct one. AÇ: This is your interpretation. Now the Sultan says to Zevi, standing before him, “Messiah, show us your miracles”. This is what’s mentioned in many sources. EG: The end result is that Zevi uttered the required words and became a Muslim. AÇ: … and he started to work in the palace. EG: He worked as a… what do you call it, a janitor? AÇ: Well we can say he started to work as a civil servant. EG: Yes, but he had followers. They, too, converted to Islam. AÇ: Did they convert the same way as Sabbatai Zevi did? Or? EG: They converted just like him. They said “I am a Muslim,”… AÇ: Sorry, as the microphone is on your right side, your voice fades away, sometimes. EG: Oh’ Well what can I do? My heart is on my left side. AÇ: (Laughs). In fact we can raise the microphone up a little. EG: No, it’s alright. They say that they are Muslims, but at home they continue to practice Judaism. They also are divided into three. The Kappanis the Yakoubines and the ... It evaded my memeory. AÇ: I can tell you who they were. You had written this here somewhere… I could not find it too. EG: I will remember it later. Getting old you know. AÇ: Anyway I wish we do not spend much time on those parts. Our time is very limited so I wish to talk about the book… EG: What I wanted to demonstrate in the book was… Sorry I have to mention one more thing, as it is very interesting. According to me, the Messiah Sabbatai Zevi has saved Turkey from the Second World War. AÇ: Yes this is a very important claim made in the book. It also exists in the back cover of the book. I would like to share it with our audience: “According to my theory, the Sabbateans have prevented Hitler entering Turkey and thus they protected not only themselves, but also the Turkish Jews and the public of Turkey at his first stages of development. They also indirectly contributed to the defeat of Hitler. But if you look at the background of the events, you will see the undisputable truth that the Sabbatean Movement that had started in 1666 – this date is important, too – did not save only his own followers, but also millions. Similar to the well-known theory the flutter of the wings of one butterfly could cause a big storm at a distant place, couldn’t Sabbatai Zevi’s movement have changed the face of the world?” In fact, this is the main theme, the essence of the book. What did you mean by “protecting Turkey from Hitler”? EG: Now. The man we call Hitler, had arrived up to our borders, at Thrace. Can you please tell me how long it would take the German army to reach Mosul from Thrace? AÇ: How long? EG: A month! There were no roads etc., but all in all it would take one single month. What would happen if Hitler could take the possession of the petroleum at Mosul? Would Russia survive? Germany was defeated because of the lack of petroleum, wasn’t it? When winter fell German tanks were immobile; the German soldiers froze. If he had reached Mosul… Hitler, as he was crazy, instead of heading towards Mosul he headed towards Stalingrad, and died there. This man, being a military genius, should have proceeded to Mosul, through Turkey. Now who caused Hitler to change his mind? If you believe in God, if you believe in religion, and if you really believe that Sabbatai Zevi was a Messiah, then you can say that the Messiah has saved his own followers. If he had entered Turkey, Hitler would immediately kill all the Sabbateans, as they were indeed Jews and Hitler was seeking to find Jews that went back to 8, 10, 15 generations. AÇ: The Sabbatean movement has started in the 17th century, right? EG: Now, the Messiah diverted Hitler and he did not go to Mosul, but to Stalingrad. The Sabbateans were saved, the Turkish Jews were saved and the newly emerging Turkey, lacking all resources, was saved from being completely ruined. And the whole world was saved from this lunatic. If you construct the theory this way, then it means that Zevi was a Messiah. If you are not convinced by this theory, then the guy is just a charlatan. It all depends on what you believe. It depends on the thinking person, on the person who wishes to understand my story. AÇ: As the result of your research and in line with your interpretations, you have constructed this frame and you reflected this in this book you have written. If we come back to the present times, it is being said that many important and leading personalities – no need to mention names – are Sabbateans or are the descendants of Sabbateans. What are their missions, today? EG: Before talking about their current missions, let’s talk about the Young Turks. Who were the Young Turks? Young Turks were Moslem Turks of Jewish origins, converted during the population exchange times. Sabbateans were divided into two. Some of the Sabbateans went to Damascus, following Zevi’s wishes. The others remained at Salonica. , Of the ones who remained at Salonica, when those who were educated in the military academy came to Istanbul, they maintained the Young Turks movement they had started at Salonica. Ataturk was one of them. In fact the biggest enemy of Ataturk was General Enver, because Enver was not a Sabbatean and was completely against the Young Turks. This is unwritten history. It is the history that is not talked about. They will never write them in history books, as these are contradictory to your beliefs. But I am not afraid to say this as it is in accordance of my own comprehension, my personal opinion. Turkey was founded by the Sabbateans! In other words, in the 20th century three Jewish countries were founded: Russia, Israel and Turkey. This Turkey was founded by the Sabbateans with Ataturk. Ataturk was a European. He wanted to westernize Turkey. That’s how we have transformed to our present state: Revenge. Anyway, I don’t want to get into this. AÇ: (Laughs) Well we have to wrap up now. Erroll Gelardin… – did I pronounce it correctly? I am hung up in pronouncing names correctly – will we be able to find all these facts in the book? EG: If you look for them, you will. AÇ: You mean if I wish to find them and if look closely, I will. EG: It’s all written there. You will find them. AÇ: Here you mention an effect; let us end this talk with that, with the words on the book’s cover. The last sentence will be yours, and then we end this broadcast. As we had mentioned earlier: “You will witness that the small effect of the flutter of the wings of one butterfly will cause a big storm in a distant place. “ Does this process continue? EG: This proves sustained until today and now it is finished. AÇ: What is finished? EG: Today, most of the Sabbateans have departed from Turkey. The ones that remain have become assimilated. There exists a few but they are extremely few in number. Most of the Sabbateans have been assimilated and it is no longer proper to regard them as Jews or “Doenmehs” in Turkey. The Sabbateans are in the Unites States of America. There are 1.5 million of Sabbateans in USA. AÇ: What is the population of the Sabbateans in the whole world? EG: There are 2 million Sabbateans in the world. In Turkey, if there really are genuine Sabbateans, who admit that they are indeed Jews, the maximum would be a thousand. Little or nothing! Today there are claims about such and such being a Sabbatean. This is wrong. You blame them for nothing. I think… AÇ: We blame them for nothing, huh? EG: Yes. At least this is what I think. AÇ: OK, Thank you very much for your visit and your valuable contributions. EG: I thank you. AÇ: With you, we have opened a new window today in our programme. Thank you Erroll Gelardin. I believe your book “The Sabbatean” would be in the bookstore shelves by Thursday. Let’s inform the readers. EG: May I say something? AÇ: Yes, please. EG: How can a man not talk with such a pretty woman. (Laughs) AÇ: (Laughs) Thank you very much and thank you for joining our show.
Posted on: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:41:13 +0000
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