VERBATIM OF THE KIRINYAGA COUNTY ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS HELD ON TUESDAY JULY 16 2013 AT THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY KERUGOYA. The session started at 2.55 PM (The chair of the session was Speaker Hon. Anne Githinji) Prayer {Hon. Speaker} {Hon. Speaker} Honourable members we go to Order of business. {Deputy Clerk Samuel Kago}; Madam Speaker, the order of business today 16th of July is: 1. Administration of oath 2. Communication from the Chair 3. Messages 4. Petitions 5. Papers 6. Notices of motion 7. Statements 8. Motions and Bills Thank you. {Hon. Speaker} Communication from the chair, Honourable members we have just ended our first quarter and from July we entered the second quarter. We need to organize our programmes and our business in and outside the house. Various committees should give their plans for the quarter so that things are not done impromptu. You give the details of your activities in good time for approval so that we don’t duplicate. Honourable members I believe there will be a lot of events in the next quarter as we all know we were incapacitated financially last quarter. I strongly want to believe this time round we will be very vigilant. I want to call upon the Finance Committee that provides oversight of the finances of the county. Oversight of the county includes oversight of the finances of the County Assembly. That is my understanding. We need to know when the funds come to the county and how they are being distributed so that all activities, all our needs are adequately and articulately provided and in good time. The County Service Board working hand in hand with the Committee on Budget, Committee on Finances and all various committees. We need to be more aggressive in ensuring that what we have planned and budgeted has been fulfilled to the letter when funds are available. Honourable members am aware there are some members with activities and from what I have been informed is that there is not even a thousand for the County Assembly for the time being. As we wait for the monies to come, I have not received official communication, I only learned about it when I asked for credit for my phone and I was told there was no money for airtime. However, it is so compelling we have to attend to activities, then maybe we see how we can organize on our own so that we don’t miss those activities. But as I report that is what I was informed last week unless the position has changed as the money needs to be released from the exchequer. Honourable members I have been informed by His Excellency governor that he has assented to our bill (Kirinyaga County Appropriation Bill no.27 of 2013). (Foot thumping) And now it becomes the law of the County. He also called me and said he looks forward to good working relationship with the members of the County Assembly. On the business of the County Assembly, it is good to bring to the attention of the members , I have ten notices of motion and I would like to go through them so that you grasp that is yours, you can get a copy if you don’t have one. Notice of motion is to indicate to us members will participate in your motion so that they can prepare themselves for the motion. When you give the assembly a notice of motion, we expect you to draw a motion which is not very far from the Notice of Motion. That is a change of a few wordings. When you do that you give it to the clerk’s office who brings it to the speaker or you can look for me and give it to me directly of which you must always give a copy. Anything you give the clerk always give a copy to the speaker for good working relations. Then the House Business Committee sits and allocates you time. And even when we sit to allocate time, we must put it on the notice board so that the public knows there is this kind of a motion and the other members are made aware that this kind of motions will be coming up. Honourable members if you have given me a notice of motion, am waiting for your motion so that we move on in line with the law. I want to read the following notices of motions. I have only one motion I believe is spent. One is spent and another is pending, but let me start with notice of motion. Notice of motion by John Nyaga Waruri, That this house adopts the recommendation of the County Assembly Service Board on payment of allowances for the members of the County Assembly in their meeting held on May 06 2013. You should be able to tell us whether it is overtaken by events or there is guideline as to whether that payment is due or is not due. Notice of motion number two, Hon. Gudson Phillip Wachira Muchina, Madam speaker I wish to move a notice of motion that the executive furnish this house with an audit report of all public land in Kirinyaga County. Take note of your motion so that you do the needful. Notice of motion number three, By Hon. Gudson Muchina MCA Tebere I wish to move a notice of motion That the executive give a statement of the position on stoppage of plot transactions on trust lands in Kirinyaga County. Those are two distinct notices of motion. Kindly give us motions on the same. Notice of motion number four, By Hon. Gudson Phillip Muchina, this honourable house adopts the report, sorry this is a motion by Hon Gudson Phillip Muchina I wish to move a motion that this assembly adopts the recommendations of the Procedure and Rules Committee made and tabled in the assembly on May 8th 2013. Am aware of this one, we are yet to look for an expert to final touches and polishing. That motion is spent. We passed it in the house and it is only waiting the final polishing for editing and also preparing the hard booklet so that it becomes the official Standing Orders copies. We have a notice of motion by Honourable Geofrey Murimi Gakuru madam speaker I wish to move a notice of motion That the executive give a statement on why the funds allocated for the support of needy children by the former Kirinyaga County Council in the financial year 2012/2013 has to date not been disbursed. You should tell us whether it is still not yet cleared or the motion still remains for debate. That is a notice of motion we want a motion or to be advised whether the matter is spent. Notice of motion number six, Honourable Gudson Phillip Wachira Muchina, That the executive give a report to this assembly on the status of Manyeki Dispensary land which was a chief’s camp given to the community by District Development Committee and thereafter, the County Council with the help of former councilors tried to sub divide the same for other uses but the community resisted. So that is a notice of motion we want the motion to be brought to the house so that it can be debated. Notice of motion number seven by Honourable Jinaro Namu Njamumo , This Assembly develops a mechanism for allocation of funds in supporting the needy children by involving the MCA’s in the identification process for the same in approving education standards in Kirinyaga County. That is a notice of motion, I remember we were told a notice of motion it can end with a recommendation, a regulation or a report. Am aware there is funding of the needy children. We may be debating the motion aiming at coming up with a regulation on how that money will be spent. Motion by John Nyaga Waruri, Leader majority party. That pursuant to Standing Orders No. 25 (3) this House adjourns its business until Wednesday 29th June 2013 at 9 Am to enable members finalize scrutinizing the budget estimates of 2013/2014. This is spent, we are through with the budget and the Bill has since become law. Vote on Account, this is Appropriation Bill motion equally spent. Notice of motion number eight which is pending, by Honourable Samuel Maina. MCA Nyangati, chairman Transport and Infrastructure Committee, Madam Speaker ,Aware that there is a conflict between different public service vehicles operators in Kirinyaga County, that is, Probox, Taxi, Omnibus and Boda Bodas. That the same has caused fighting between different groups in the industry which has resulted to people being seriously being injured and hospitalized, I wish to move a notice of motion, That the executive reports to this house the efforts the County Government is doing to end the wrangles in the matatus sector. This is a notice of motion pending motion by honourable Samuel Maina kindly bring the motion so that we can allocate time for debate. Notice of motion number nine by Honourable Jackson Murimi Wairimu, Chairman physical planning and Housing Committee, Madam Speaker aware that during the cocktail party organized by the Governor on 2nd July 2013, That His Excellency the Governor formed an adhoc Committee with a mandate to look in to Land issues in Kirinyaga County consisting of Five (5) MCAs, Honourables Joel Wagura, Rahab Wachera,David Kinyua Mutugi , David Mwangi Mwaniki and Samuel Maina, and aware That there exists a Committee on Physical planning and Housing which should handle this docket, I request that you give direction on the matter as there appears to be a conflict on existence of the two committees handling the same issues. This is a notice of motion kindly bring us the motion so that we can be able to debate and the speaker makes a ruling on the same. We have the last notice of motion by Honourable David Kinyua Wangui Madam Speaker, aware of the conduct of the CEC (Finance) in discharge of his duties, and in accordance with the County Government Act 2012 Section (40), (a)(b) and (c) AND Section 39(2) of the County Government 2012 and in compliance with Standing Order Nos. 62,63 and 64 of The County Assembly of Kirinyaga I wish to move a notice of motion That His Excellency the Governor discharges him (Mr. Stanley Kithaka Gachugo- CEC Finance, Economic Planning and Marketing) of his duties with immediate effect. That is a notice of motion by David Kinyua Wangui and being a notice of motion we now want a motion so that we debate, when it is allocated time by the House Business Committee it will be debated, the speaker forms a committee of five persons who will investigate the matter and give a recommendations and report to this house. The recommendation report entails fair practices which means he will be called by that committee to answer those allegations explaining so that finally what that committee recommends will be approved by this assembly for implementation by the governor. That is the pending business; however we cannot debate anything today because as you agree the motions are either pending consultant experts or they have been spent. But notices of motions are pending motions. That is the communication from the chair, we proceed to messages, petitions, papers, notice of motions, statements. {Hon. James Kinyua Mutugi, MCA Wamumu} Madam speaker I rise on a point of statement as provided for in Standing Order 40. Now that his Excellency the governor assented to our Bill, this house constitutes the committee of implementation so that we are bake to start seeing the work in progress. {Hon. Speaker} You cited Standing Order number 40 Sub clause? {Hon. Mutugi} Sub Clause 1 where members are allowed to make general statements in the house. {Hon. Speaker} Are we looking at the same Standing Order? Kindly make reference of your Standing Order. If you said 40. {Hon. Mutugi} yes madam speaker there is.. {Hon. Speaker} if you could kindly read the reference. {Hon. Mutugi} Members general statements is 40..that.. {Hon. Speaker} Can you read for the honourable members. {Hon. Mutugi} There is..sorry sub clause 2, and it says that a member who wishes to seek leave to raise a matter under this Standing Order shall before 3 Pm on the day the statement is made hand to the speaker a written notification of the matter. The speaker shall refuse to allow the request unless satisfied the matter may be properly discussed in the County Assembly. {Hon. Speaker} So Honourable member guide us on how you want us to accommodate you. {Hon. Mutugi} Madam speaker the only oversight is I did not write but I wish that this house accommodates for the essence and the seriousness of the matter. {Hon. Speaker} I don’t know whether the honourable members have understood what the honourable member is saying on statements. The speaker shall interrupt the business of the County Assembly every Tuesday at six to facilitate members to make general statements of topical concerns. What time are we? I believe it is not yet six. Number two, a member wishes to seek leave and raise a matter under this Standing Order 40, before 3 PM the day the statement is to be made, hand over to the speaker a written notification. I have not seen any notification, but the speaker shall refuse to allow the request unless satisfied that the matter may be properly discussed in the County Assembly. I have not even reached a point of refusing or to allow. What am saying I have not seen any written notification before 3 PM. Honourable Member next time lets comply with Standing Orders unless it is really a burning issue. {Hon. Mutugi} yeah madam speaker I will honour the Standing Orders. {Hon. Speaker} Is it a matter which can be withheld or burning that you must be given room to speak it out? {Hon. Mutugi} I was making a request that this house madam speaker through your guidance forms that committee that was not constituted when we constituted others as is in the Standing Orders. Committee on Implementation. {Hon. Speaker} That is a good recommendation, but it is good you give us a notification on the matter so that even members can also canvass on who are best suited for that Committee on Implementation. Member that is a good concern, that we need an implementation committee which was not guided last time however it is good you give us a written notification. And now that you have already given a notice to that effect, we will be able to proceed next Tuesday on that issue. We have also stated that we expect the motions to be brought. Motions must reach us by Thursday so the House Business Committee, I don’t whether Thursday is too soon? {Hon. Gudson Muchina, MCA Tebere} Thursday is too short notice so that we prepare very well with our motions, may be next week on Tuesday. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable member has requested Tuesday. Am also aware that most members will be travelling for various activities. Members advised me there is a lot of travelling arrangements which have been made and to accommodate them and also to give ourselves ample time, unless there is a member who feels his motion must be debated before Thursday. If you really insist that your motion will be time barred, or it will be overtaken by events if we don’t debate it by Thursday afternoon, honourable members who have pending motions. {Hon. Jinaro Njamumo,MCA Mutithi} I would wish to give the members and the house my opinion. Given the fact that these notices of motion were given long time ago and they were read in this assembly, I believe in your wisdom and statement today, communication from the chair you have highlighted very pertinent issues particularly the committee of finance. You are urging we start following up because after the governor has assented to the Appropriation Bill, we require to know the position of the disbursement of the funds from the exchequer. There are some motions that do not have to wait because having gone through the jostling and all what we have encountered as a Committee of Finance and the whole assembly with the CEC Finance, I was finding in my wisdom very imperative that some motions cannot wait. Like that one presented by Honourable Kinyua Wangui . I was urging the honourable presents his motion to the house, so the House Business Committee allocates time that motion on Thursday. It is very important we start debating on that motion, even the finance position of the County Assembly and the County Government must b pressed to know how we are going to implement the budget. Thank you madam speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable Kinyua Wangui has been cited on an urgent motion pending. {Hon. David Kinyua Wangui, MCA Mutira } am standing on a point of order. I refer this house to Standing Order 62 and am convinced we failed somewhere in the procedure. Standing Order 62 (2) note Before and the word is BEFORE giving notice of motion, under section 40 County Government Act 2012, the member shall deliver to the clerk a copy of the proposed motion in writing stating the grounds and particulars upon which the proposal is made requiring the governor to dismiss the member of the County Executive Committee on the ground of gross violation. I am now convinced that , we ought to first of all written the motion itself, all those notices we ought to have written the motion, send it to the clerk and to the speaker. If the grounds are satisfying then the speaker will allow the notice to be processed and brought to the house. {Hon. Speaker} I want to look at the grounds that were provided. Any member with the grounds cited in the honourable’s motion? Was there gross violation? Was it one of the accusations? It is under County Government Act 2012 (40) (a) (b) (c) there is abuse of office, gross misconduct. The clause we are reading now is gross violation of the provisions of the constitution. {Hon. David Kinyua Wangui} Madam speaker you did not get me right. Am talking about the procedure. Before bringing the notice, the proposed motion ought to have been brought first to be cleared by your office then the notice will be brought to the house. The point is that we prepare the motion, it ought to have been prepared first, that is according to my understanding of the Standing Order 62. {Hon. Speaker} let’s hear the honourable member. {Hon. Gudson Muchina} I stand in support of Honourable Kinyua that the way the motion was presented to this house, it was not presented in the right order.. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable member, a motion or a notice of motion? {Hon. Gudson Muchina} Notice of motion, sorry, was not presented in the right manner because as Standing Order 62 states clearly the way the honourable member has read it. Before giving notice of motion under that section of the County Government Act 2012, the member shall deliver to the clerk a copy of the proposed motion in writing stating the grounds and particulars upon which the proposal is made. In the beginning when the notice was given to the house and if the member who presented the notice of motion in this house is confirming that the due process was not followed, the motion is in the house not in the right manner according to the Standing Orders. {Hon. Kinyua Mutugi} Madam speaker I rise to first of all the issue here {Hon. Speaker} Did you say who you are? It is important for the Hansard. {Hon. Kinyua Mutugi} I rising because the direction we are taking now is not as requsted by honourable Njamumo. He was rising to say that the motion is a matter of urgency and the question is if I got clear, why you passed the back to honourable Kinyua Wangui, was whether he is ready to present the notice before us. Madam Speaker may be guided on whether the member is ready to present the motion before Thursday so that we are able to debate the motion. {Hon. Kinyua Wangui} Thank you madam speaker. Once again if am guided and allowed to contravene the Standing Orders, am very ready and safe to proceed and present the motion even if it means tomorrow or today. Thank you madam speaker. (Foot thumping) {Hon. Speaker} Honourable members, point of clarification number one: the member and the mover of the motion should speak about his motion. It is the member who brought the notice, before we talk of regular or irregularities, who should address us on the urgency of his motion. Number two, the honourable member, mover of the motion, appear to be telling us that he notices a hitch in how he would like to move it. We will give the honourable member an opportunity, may be to consider whether it is withdrawal to go and comply because what I read personally, proposed motions in writing stating grounds and particulars. May be that is what he did not write. If he feels he want to do the grounds and particulars, it is his motion all what we can do is to guide him on procedure but the motion remains his. Honourable member that is your motion tell us what you want to do about it. Number one whether it is urgent or it can wait for what we are saying. Members are indulging in various activities. Motions must be brought by Friday or we say Monday they must be ready so we give members a weekend for thorough preparation. On Tuesday the House Business Committee will meet and allocate time, and if yours is urgent we will put it on Tuesday afternoon for debate. Notify us that you would like yours debated on Tuesday afternoon. That is the earliest that we can resume on those motions. However because we must respect that this motion has mover respecting the finance we want to hear the final word from the mover of that motion. Honourable Njamumo order! {Hon. Kinyua Wangui} I must confess that this motion is very urgent. Members are so eager and want to debate the motion for the sake of Kirinyaga County. Am sure the grounds were quoted in the notice of motion incompetence, ignorance of this house and other am going to quote later. Madam Speaker my concern was at a later date someone may not act and disqualify our process on the grounds that we contravened the Standing Orders. However madam speaker we ought to have received guidance from the chair that since I have quoted the Standing Orders very clearly, being a honourable member of this house, should I go ahead and present the motion having noted, in fact it is not only for this motion, even others brought as notice of motion they did not observe that. You are first of all supposed to prepare the motion, bring it to the clerk; the clerk understands it and approves it. Then he allows the notice to be presented to this house. Madam Speaker I still feel you need to give me guidelines concerning that but clearly in my heart and mind this motion is very urgent. Given an opportunity I would present it right now. {Hon. Speaker} For the purposes of clarity, those with Standing Orders, Procedure for removal of member of County Executive Committee. Are all motions in respect to the removal of executive committee? {Hon. ….} No So this is one case that we are addressing in this notice of motion. It does not relate to all other motions. This is very specific on the County Executive Committee and it is strictly removal, we are preceding removal which I believe is in line with what is written. It is only that I don’t see the grounds; the reasons are cited within Standing Orders, the gross misconduct and abuse of office. However if you look at Standing Order 62, before giving any notice of motion under section 40 of the County Government Act 2012, the member shall deliver to the clerk a copy of the proposed motion in writing stating grounds and particulars upon which the proposal is made. When you state grounds, you don’t have to write abuse, misconduct, as long as you have cited the respective sections. I know what you are accusing him of because I read (a) (b) (C) misuse, misappropriation, gross misconduct and the like. Those are already within your notice of motion because you cited the relevant sections. Deliver a copy of the proposed motion, this is not a motion, the word is very clear proposed motion. So you must take note of the word proposed motion, it is not a motion, in writing stating grounds and particulars upon which the proposal is made requiring the governor to dismiss a member of the County Executive Committee on grounds of gross violation of the provisions of the constitution or any other law. Where there are serious reasons for believing that the member for the County Executive Committee has committed a crime under the national or international law, or for gross misconduct which is the case at hand, the notice of motion shall be signed by the member. That is notice of motion and clerk shall submit the proposed motion to the speaker for approval. Proposed motion is not a motion. I believe it is still intent. There is a difference between notice of motion, proposed motion and a motion. To me, notice of motion lies squarely in line with proposed motion. Because it is an indication of what you need to say and you notice that the notice of motion and motion are not very far from each other. It only changes a few wordings. My interpretation is that it says before giving a notice of motion under section 40 of the County Government Act 2012, the member shall deliver to the clerk a copy, which you have done, of the proposed motion in writing stating grounds and particulars, which you have done, which the proposal is made requiring the governor dismiss a member, I believe we have followed the due procedure. I can’t say we have defaulted in the procedure perse not to allow this motion to proceed. However am persuaded because it is your motion, tell us what you want with your notice of motion. Tell us what you want. Other than the matter of procedure tell us what you want with your motion. Because what I have said considering the issue of members’ availability, whether it is in order for us to proceed on Tuesday or you would like to go and look into the content of 62 and come and address us. {Hon. Jinaro Njamumo} Point of order,Madam Speaker, maybe before the mover of this motion rises to give his final tape on what has happened, if my memory stands me well Madam Speaker I don’t know why honourable Kinyua, the mover of this motion is forgetting that he placed a document on the table of the Interim clerk to this County Assembly giving his intention to move a motion on the CEC Finance and he left it on his table. What happened to it I do not know Madam Speaker. Then thereafter the following day I remember in the same clerk`s office I was with the honourable member and this is now the time the notice of motion was given. Madam Speaker if the interim clerk of the County Assembly was near, the house would want a clarification of whether he received the proposed motion or not because I remember very well that the member was there giving that proposed motion to the interim clerk of the County Assembly. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable members let us give the mover of the motion; it is his motion we have to give him the liberty to tell us what he wants with the notice of motion. If you address me now you address me on your motion and you are on your notice. {Hon. Gudson Muchina} Madam Speaker I stand in support that honourable Kinyua is the bonafide owner of the motion and he should tell us the way forward now that he has understood that the motion was not properly brought in the house. It is his jurisdiction; it is his duty to guide this house. {Hon. James Mutugi} Madam Speaker am only rising on a point of order. Before we were brought a memorandum of refusal by his Excellency the Governor that he has to decide to refuse I would urge that we procedurally follow the law because Madam Speaker it’s just the other day we saw a memorandum governing a refusal for asset. We would not want the same scenario repeated in this house Madam Speaker. Am only urging that whether it was a document that was placed in the clerk’s office, it is only the mover of the motion who understands what he placed on the table of the clerk. It may have been a draft of the notice, it may have been a draft of the motion, it may have been anything even a personal letter Madam Speaker, it is only the mover of this motion that can clearly substantiate whatever it is that he brought at the clerk`s table because I believe Madam Speaker we are used to dropping very many things at the clerk`s table for typing. So am only requesting that as you have said the mover gives us direction on this and not in contravention of the law. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Okay, having heard from the deputy speaker, the mover of the motion we have said you should not feel ambushed by this house since it’s your motion. We have until Tuesday when we will resume on this issue, if you are not ready on your way forward now there is up to Tuesday to give us the clarity and also consult the interim clerk on what you submitted then we are able to move on. What we are saying is the house is likely to assume on Tuesday afternoon when our motions are ready. Tell us what you feel on the issue respective to your motion. {Hon. David Kinyua Wangui} Thank you Madam Speaker. Once again I appreciate the guidance of this house and the guidance of the honourable chair. Madam Speaker my only worry is, I understand the spirit that is in this house but the due process and the procedures of the house, the standing orders and the constitution must be upheld. Madam Speaker I want to see the success Kirinyaga and for that health centre that is in Mutithi to be constructed and to serve the people of Mutithi, the CEC finance who is failing that must go. For that road which is from Kutus to Kianyaga for it to be constructed and quality work done the man must go. However, as we say that we must follow the due process. Madam Speaker I don’t want to be embarrassed at any time, I want us to do smart work since we are protected by the constitution and our Standing Orders. To my understanding the procedure was not followed, I gave the notice to the clerk it was taken to the Speaker`s office and I signed it. But the actual proposed motion was not presented to the clerk. We are all learning, this is our first time in this house so members am not withdrawing the motion we must proceed and it is urgent but let us follow the due process. (Foot thumping) Madam Speaker, am not intimidated and I feel the same unto this honourable house, I will follow the due process and the motion must be debated in this honourable house within the shortest time possible. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} That was on the motions and statements. I have not seen any other business on my desk. There being no other business, the assembly adjourns to Tuesday July 23 2013 at 2.30 Pm The house rose at 3.43 PM. ::::::::Disclaimer Obtain official Hansard from the office of the clerk-
Posted on: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:40:10 +0000
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