following is an information letter about the project at the OLD school SY19 7AD Part 1. Dear Planning office Following the visit by yourself and building regs officer on the 6 nov 13 we have slowed work on the school to concentrate on getting this letter in to you within a week as requested. As you saw we we are about halfway (hopefully) through renovating the canteen and kitchen and temporarily converting the canteen into a bunk room so that we can offer warm accommodation to students either for courses facilitated by other people or of more interest to us inviting workers from Helpx and the Woofing organisations to come and learn/teach us how to do up a Victorian school, create a permaculture garden etc. The title we have for the school is the Residential Educational Centre for Alternative Learning ...RECAL The following part of letter started 21 10 13 Part 2. Adddition to letter 11 11 13 Having just seen the devastation in the Philippines depicted on the news I have decided that the survivors need aid more than the council needs an immediate planning fee therefore I have decided to donate the £160 which I have been informed it would be the cost for planning for access to rear as I feel I can manage without this access for a bit longer …..following copied from online donation page.... Thank you very much for your donation of £160.00 to the British Red Cross - Typhoon Haiyan Appeal Your payment reference is: 9CV07578EU849625D. I Have also decided that if when I apply for conversion to residential use for the property and if it is granted then upon sale of the property I will then donate 10% of any capital gains I will accrue to the Red Cross for its then current disaster appeal refer to Part 11. below Part 3. I apologise for the length of this missive but it is of high importance to myself and my neighbours I purchased the school in December last year as the planning permission on it seemed to closely correspond with the intention I had of holding educational camps and was within my budget. Since this time I and friends have been happily working on the buildings curing leaking roofs, rot, frost damaged plumbing and heating systems, repairing vandalism, damp damage and getting closer to being able to advertise a comfortable space for residential courses. We have also been trying to decide what planning application to put in and have held up work on the the parts of the job that we think needs planning permission...for example building the access to the rear carpark. We have done some preparatory work towards this after receiving an email from the planning office containing the information....The demolition of buildings thatexceed 50 cubic meters requires planning control. This led us to believe that removing an annexe to the toilet block of about 6 cubic meters and removal of a further 6 cubic meters of stone wall did not require planning permission but the building of the access did. Therefore we have done some prepararory work but not built the access.... We are having difficulty in forming the planning application as we were informed that the cost of the application varies for different works but the cost for the most expensive planning application would also include lesser works. Following is an email I sent to the planning office before purchase and the reply to it. Part 4. Dear M following on phone call yesterday. I have agreed a purchase price on the old school Llanbrynmair. The use I wish to put it to I think comes within the current C2 planning in that I would like to hold residential educational courses of varied content . Having spent time looking through the micro fiches of previous planning applications I have noted the concerns regarding access and realise the entrance has to be widened etc. I have seen that the previous applications have suggested demolishing the structures along the right hand side of the forecourt ie, the two sided shelter and the toilet block, I feel this would detract from the character of the property and unless required would prefer to remove only a small part of the toilet block this being an extension of the block which restricts the width of access to the rear parking area and which does not seem intrinsic to the structure. (this extension is visible on google earth using street level view and is the dark grey block attached on the left side of the toilet block). To complete access to the rear parking area would also require removal of part of the concrete wall to the NE of the toilet block and the construction of a ramp to the rear parking area (tarmac playground) behind the school. I would like to convert the old canteen dinning room into a workshop where initially the work necessary to upgrade the school could be carried out and then when the school buildings have been improved to a level where people other than school kids would be willing to stay there for the duration of courses to utilise the workshop for creative projects ranging through yurt building (I have just helped some friends with a course on yurt building which was financed by the Welsh Asembly supplying work experience and confidence building for unemployed teenagers), jewellery making, glass painting, bronze casting, classic bike restoration, tie dying and painting of clothes .willow weaving and similar. I have the skills to facilitate most of the courses I envisage holding and where my skills are lacking know others who could run such courses, The building would of course be double/triple glazed reducing any noise interference with the neighbours and sound proofing in the form of kingspan type insulation added to the interior of the roof and activities would be of short duration. The catering facilities would need to be moved into the school building and the facilities improved by the creation of more private sleeping areas and the instalation of a sauna and jacuzzi. Apart from the courses requiring workshop space I would also like to turn most of the grassed areas into a permaculture garden and herb garden to enable courses in these subjects to be held I like the school buildings as they are and envisage no changes to the exterior of the main buildings except the restoration of a missing chimney, the replacement of exsisting windows with similar double glazed units etc. I would like to install solar panels for water heating and electricity generation to the canteen/workshop roof and free standing solar tracking panels for electricity generation either about 30 feet behind the workshop or at the top center of the grassed playing field. (I would also like a 1.5 KW windmill but I guess that would not be popular with the locals). I am not sure of the viability of a ground source heat pump at this site but if possible would be interested in installing such ( I love alternative technology and have worked at the center for alternative technology Machynlleth in the past and at present run a wood fired mobile sauna and showers which I built myself and supply solar power for venues at festivals alongside a stall selling craft and jewellery goods etc. that I have fabricated myself.) I have considered calling the place RECALL ....the residential educational center for alternative living The premises will of course be available for local use if wanted and may provide a chance for local employment for a cook/houskeeper during courses and possibly a caretaker during the summer months when i will probably continue working at festivals and gatherings, ..... I see the school as being a winter operating project Yours Mark Dicker phone 07801190949 or 07734882921 part 5. Dear Mr Dicker, Thank you for your enquiry received 5th of December regarding the above proposal. Based on the information provided, I am able to advise the following. The established use of the building is understood to be Class C2 of the Use Classes Order based on its last known use as a base for outdoor activities which involved residential courses (C2 residential institution). It is noted that the proposed use is stated to be for residential educational courses which also tend to fall within Class C2. On the face of it, the proposed use would appear to be similar to the last known use as an outdoor pursuits centre and may well continue to fall within Class C2 of the Use Classes Order. My understanding is that the existing buildings were used as dormitories and that there was a canteen within the detached building to the rear, with the land at the rear probably being used for outdoor activities and also being used as a base to explore the area. It is noted that the proposed use would. The residential use would need to be in connection with the educational courses only, i.e. used for temporary stays for attendees of the courses, and would not be able to be used as a hotel as such, which would fall under Class C1. Craft workshops, where products are made for sale, would usually fall under Class B1, however it appears that the proposal is to carry out workshop courses in traditional and alternative crafts for educational/training purposes. The doubt that I have is whether the craft workshop element changes the character and impact of the existing use, as this did not appear to be a feature of the previous use, and also the intended use of the building as a workshop in connection with the conversion of the building (albeit that this may be temporary), and therefore whether the proposed use should be treated as a mixed use, and therefore may require permission. I think there is scope for the craft workshops to be treated as ancillary providing that they are operated as part of the educational courses. On the basis of the information provided, it would appear that the proposal would not involve a material change of use from the last known use. Clearly, if the nature or character of the use turns out to be different to that described, a change of use may be involved. In situations where a change of use is involved, reference would be made to the requirements of policy GP6 of the Powys Unitary Development Plan in relation to redundant buildings in the countryside: powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/Written_statement_final_web_en_04.pdf As the building is located within East Llanbrynmair, which is a rural settlement, the location of the building is within the countryside as such. The hierarchy within this policy prioritises economic uses above other alternative uses, with the uses within the 3 higher classes being favourable and, in principle, acceptable. Where proposals have been put forward for conversion to permanent residential use Class C3, the following information would have to be provided: 1. To market the property at a price / valuation that reasonably reflects the building’s location, condition, and cost of conversion for the proposed uses in the top tier of the hierarchy (i.e. Classes i-iii) – the valuation and marketing must include options ‘for sale’ and ‘for letting’. Written evidence must be produced of the following: · the marketing details and particulars; · explain the level of marketing undertaken (probably help to specify how this should occur – see Chorley) · the responses expressions of interest received for all of the higher classes. · reasons why a use in one of the higher classes is not proposed. · If option 1 used, a justification that the price (for sale & for letting) reasonably reflects each of the classes i.e. that it would be viable to convert to that use taking into account the price. 2. If an application is to be submitted without the 6 month marketing, convincing evidence must be provided as to why the classes I-III would be impractical. Clearly, if a change of use is not involved, planning permission will not be required for the proposed use, and therefore the planning issues or impacts of the use need not be considered. For instance, this would negate the need to consider the adequacy of the existing highway access to the site, which would have been likely to be problematic and a judgement would have to be made on any intensification of use and highway safety implications. Therefore, whilst there may not be any requirements to improve the existing access, you may find that certain alterations may be needed for practical or convenience reasons to serve the use you are proposing. If physical alterations are made to the existing access, for instance widening, these alterations would then require planning permission and therefore the Mid Wales Trunk Road Agency would be assessing the adequacy of these alterations. Where improvements are gained, for instance through providing a widened and formalised access, this may be supported. We would advice that you provide details of any alterations proposed to the existing access in order that we can confirm the planning requirements. We would also encourage that a more formal parking layout may improve the existing situation. The proposed use of the outside areas as permaculture and herb gardens again for residential courses would be ancillary to this use. Whilst planning permission does not appear to be required for the proposed use, planning permission will be required for any material alterations to the external appearance of the building along with any associated works such as hardsurfacing. The demolition of buildings that exceed 50 cubic metres in volume also now falls within planning control. I note from your email that the following external works are planned to the building and site: removal of part of the toilet block; construction of a ramp to the rear car park; conversion of the old canteen building including insulating; restoriation of a missing chimney; replacement of exsting windows with double-glazed units; solar hot water and photovoltaic panels; wind turbine; Further details and plans of the location and scale of these works are required in order that we can confirm the planning requirements. The existing windows of the building are feature windows and therefore should be retained within the building. Double-glazed units are likely to consitute an alteration which requires planning permission. The installation of internal secondary glazing may be more favourable. Consideration should also be given to how the internal areas of the building are subdivided and the impact of this on window features. Where replacement is necessary, such would need to be in keeping with the proportion, pattern, style, colour and finish of the existing windows. I would refer you to the CADW guidance on barn conversions. Although the building in question is not listed, the building is of merit being of a Victorian school design, built of traditional stone and slate materials, and is a distinctive and prominent building of heritage value. The openness of the interior of the building should be retained and, where necessary, first floor levels should be in the form of mezzanine levels. You may find the general principles applied to conversions of former agricultural buildings and chapels within the CADW best practice guidance useful in considering alterations and identifying appropriate solutions to this type of building: cadw.wales.gov.uk/historicenvironment/help-advice-and-grants/lookingafteryourproperty/bestpractice/?lang=en You also need to consider the building regulation requirements in respect of thermal insulation, sound-proofing, fire escape and accessibility in designing the conversion. Where physical external works are required to comply with building regulations, you will need to also check whether planning permission is required. You also need to be mindful of any requirements under legislation in relation to protected species, for instance bats, barn owls and nesting birds, which may be relevant to the works that you propose to carry out that require planning permission. Depending on the advice received from our ecologist, there may be a need for a bat/barn owl survey to be carried out. Even for works that do not fall under planning control, you need to be aware of other European legislation that protects bat roosts, barn owls and nesting birds. Other issues that would be worth checking is the foul and surface water drainage arrangements, i.e. whether there is a private drainage system or connection to the mains. New facilities may require planning permission and would also need to comply with building regulations. Where areas are served by mains sewers, we do not usually allow new private facilities. You may also find it helfpul to carry out a structural survey in order to confirm the structural stability of the building and to identify any repair works required. In terms of the proposed energy efficiency measures, my initial advice is as follows, however again further details are required for specific comment and confirmation of planning requirements. Whilst the Planning Authority seeks to encourage the incorporation of energy efficiency and conservation measures and technologies within developments, any such proposals would need to be sympathetic of the character of the building and its setting, and therefore conventional solutions, such as roof mounted solar panels may not be appropriate to the building itself, whereas a ground mounted panels or ground source heat pump or other less intrusive technologies may be appropriate. You may find the following WAG document useful in that it explains the planning implications for these solutions: wales.gov.uk/topics/planning/policy/guidanceandleaflets/planningimplications/;jsessionid=fywgTCXDz0nL1vP1V5Q0kYVwYYQmF1fhFlKlFQSS8Qs6TdK2rL7C!-1206084875?lang=en Further advice on submitting a planning application (application form ID004) and the requirements can be found at the following website: powys.gov.uk/index.php?id=5224&L=0 I hope this is of assistance. If you have any further plans or details that you wish us to consider, please submit these details in order that specific preliminary comments and advice can be provided, and if needed a meeting can be arranged, preferably on site, to view the proposed works. The above comments are preliminary only and do not prejudice the decision of the Authority in determining a formal planning application. The purpose of preliminary discussions is to provide information about the relevant policies and to identify potential issues with proposed developments. If the purpose of any preliminary discussions is to gain certainty as to the potential of the site in order to inform your decision to purchase or not purchase the property, this cannot be established without the submission of a formal planning application. It would not be advisable to base the purchase of the property on potential alone or any the comments of any planning officer. If you decide to purchase the property without the benefit of planning permission for the intended use or development, you would be doing so at your own risk. Regards, Part 6. About a week ago we (royal we referring to the school) had a letter from the council Ref. No. DRS/JAN WK/201318119 14 OCT 13 complaining about a smoke nuisance from our chimneys. This was upsetting as we are fairly certain that except under unusual weather condition when the smoke from our workvan in its temporary parking space may for a few seconds blow into the garden of the unoccupied house next door our smoke does not affect anybody. More recently we had a visit from an enforcement officer informing us that there had been a complaint about us living here. As my storeroom is near Rhayader and my business associates house is near Barmouth then commuting to work on the school is not practical. I suppose I could park in the layby down the road if I am not allowed to park my workvan here although it would be inconvenient and slow down the work on the place Since these complaints we have begun to wonder if this is the right site for our project as the nature of the surrounding premises is residential. At present I have no option but to continue with my previous plans for the school as 5 years or so on the market with C2 planning previous to me buying it prove the unsaleability of the premises with its current planning permission We are planning a planning application but are unsure what application to put in to the planning office as we see many options several of which depend on each other or various other factors We would appreciate any help towards finding out what planning permission is possible and how to apply for it as we cannot afford limitless planning applications I have a small amount of capital available for works. The biomass boiler alone will cost more than this requiring a loan from friends and/or bank if available. Part 7. Priority works needed FLAT ROOF which was leaking badly covering annexe built on rear of school (I have temporarily repaired it to limit future damage). As discussed with the building regs person we feel that this would be better rebuilt with a slight slope on it An immediate requirement is planning permission for building a vehicular access to the rear car park making work on the premises easier and tidying up the front of the school by moving our vehicles and trailers out of obvious sight from the road ( but not applied for due to not having decided what other works need to be included in/with it). Another immediate requirement is for alterations to the part of the front railings/gates extending inwards... at present the gates are mounted inside the front railings by about 3 meters causing difficulty in manoeuvring in the yard and forcing crossing of the road into the far lane (westbound) on exit to go east in the direction of Caersws. Following is an excerpted copy of email received relating to this Hi Mark Thanks for your e-mail and apologies for the delay. 1. I do not believe that you require consent to remove the railings/gates etc. I hope this helps. Thanks ---- Swyddog Cynllunio Gorfodaeth - Planning Enforcement Officer Widening the gates by moving the east side gate post would be beneficial to the access and may be required in the future Part 8. At present the school heating (not working due to frost damage) is by a70KW oil fired boiler which only does space heating the hot water for the 5 showers and approx 9 washbasins is electric. . The canteen and kitchen with a further 6 sinks was heated entirely by electric which is both uneconomic and unecological. We would like to install a biomass boiler in line with the government fossil CO2 reduction initiative. This requires a biomass store. This store varies by type of fuel selected. The simplest to install is a woodpellet burning boiler but the pellets are supplied by “big” business companies and we worry about future price increases . This requires a largish pellet hopper near the boiler room (on the “East” side of the school) this will be visible from the road and the neighbours properties . After the rear access is completed the hopper/storage facility can be located out of site of the road and almost out of sight of the neighbouring properties if we build an access for delivery between the canteen and flat roofed extension (drying room) on the rear of the school ( as mentioned to planning officer 6 11 13).Our favourite is to have a boiler which can burn logs and/or woodchips as this is less dependant on big buisiness companies but requires a storage facility either for wood which can be processed on site and/or a silo into which woodchip can be tipped by the delivery vehicle. This would probably require re-siting the boiler room into what is presently the drying room behind the school (this siting may be better for the pellet fired boiler also). This quondry is holding up the presentation of a planning application as decisions need to be made before presentation. Part 9. We are working hard trying to renovate the canteen and kitchen and turn the canteen into a temporary bunkroom so we have a warm usable space to start holding courses in. The school itself is a major project that will take more capital and either more help or a long time to stabilise, renovate, and modernise ( when the canteen is more completed we will advertise for workers/students on Helpx and the WOOFERS site) .Part 10. At present I am learning to use Sketchup 8 so I can blueprint the school and show the options for what I would like to do with it (might run a course in the near future on sketchup if I can find interested/helpful people to come and help me draw up plans). I was not planning on sending this letter until I had sketchup visualisations to accompany it. Part 11. Having looked at the previous outline planning applications where as far as I could understand permission for conversion to fabrication/ factory use were refused due to access problems but conversion to residential was not we are wondering whether conversion of the school to 2 or 3 residential units and of the canteen to a studio flat or craftworkshop and living space may be the best use of the premises. The change of use to residential in full or part would enable me to either. 1. sell the place and move on to more suitable premises ( most likely scenario) or 2. sell part of the school to raise cash to finish work on the remainder in a shorter time reducing work annoyance to neighbours or 3. possibly to enter into an agreement with a local builder to do up and sell the housing units created 4. facilitate the organisation of a self build “cooperative” housing project. 5. Convert the canteen into a craft studio/educational premises and living accommodation with smallholding/ permaculture garden behind it (which I would like to retain for myself) and sell the rest 6. various combinations of the above Residential planning permission would bring in more council tax Residential planning permission is likely to raise money for the Red Cross diater fund. (See Part 2. above) The works requiring permission I would like to carry out on the canteen ( which I do not believe to be of architectural or historical interest) include fitting photovoltaic solar panels (of which I have about 2.5 KW) some to the roof and remainder on the land behind the canteen. Fitting external insulation to the north facing walls. Building a “conservatory” to the south facing walls. Fitting solar water heating panels to the southwest facing wall at low level or to the lower roof edge depending on whether the conservatory is built ( possible need of the strip of land for access for biofuel delivery ). If the school remains as C2 I dont think we need planning permission on the main building as the work will be internal excepting for vehicular access to rear and permission for resident caretaker/ maintenance and renovation person(s)....(Although I have considered fitting external insulation under the slated walls which would not change the visual aspect of the buildings). Depending on the decision of what type of biomass boiler and its siting woodstore etc. further planning may be required. PLEASE NOTE The school was vandalised shortly before I bought it and will contain valuable tools, equipment, musical instruments etc. to function in the way I envisage. I feel a resident caretaker is essential. I appreciate the visual image of the main school building and would like to retain this look The courses we would like to hold here (for some of which I would be a “facilitator” and for some of the others a student) include but are not limited to 1. circle dancing and similar dance camps 2. pottery making 3. “silver” /bronze casting 4. jewellery making 5. stove making 6. classic bike restoration 7. musical interest varying from instrument repair to creating recordings 8. motorcaravan conversion 9. permaculture gardening 10. medical herbalism 11. healing 12. astrology 13. eco/alternative technology 14. courses thought of by other facilitators We already have held/are holding 2 courses 1. the first and ongoing course is renovating a Victorian school.. the uptake for this has been low because of the lack of usable residential space. 2. The second was/is rebuilding a Mercedes 307 engine and is still ongoing but has changed location We envision the numbers at these courses to range from one person to probably no more than 80 depending on the course type. The school when I bought it contained enough bunk beds etc. to sleep about 60 people Most of these courses at least initially would be held during the off season October to April Part 12. To see who I am and what we are doing with the school entering sams sauna magic hat into Facebook and scrolling down to 19th Dec 2012 which is when I started a picture, video and blog diary about the school will show what we have been doing the last year. Please note the words magic hat refer to the way I run the sauna area and is best described in the paragraph at the top of my sign... MAGIC HAT PRINCIPLE We believe that people should not be excluded from warmth cleanliness or food because they cannot “afford” a fixed fee. We hope that richer friends will take up the deficit caused by the poorer ones or that they will pay in work or at a later date. If we have a good enough time or the “hat” takes enough donations of any kind we’ll see you again next year If possible we will be running the school on the same ethos. Previous to buying the school I was facilitating another facebook page Eco alttech smallholding group forming to purchase land for project(s) These pages and the following will give an impression of who/what I/we are Coming from a basis of skilled mechanic I progressed through building the outriggers for Chay Blyths transatlantic race winning yacht some 30 years ago to repairing and restoring my own classic vehicles to building and running two mobile saunas and showers, jewellery making, repairing musical instruments, to helping people renovate houses and other constructive projects. For over 25 years during the summer I have been running this wood fired mobile sauna and shower rig which I built and maintaining a peaceful healing relaxation area alongside it, more recently I have added power providing from solar panels to my summer occupation. The aim we have for the school in its initial form is partially laid out in the information about us on our facebook page which I have copied here.... Description we bought a shool at the end of 2012 where we will be trying to run educational camps on such things as permaculture courses, alt tech,holistic therapy, circle dancing , herbalism, classic bike restoration, jewellery making, crafts, pottery, bronze casting??? first we have to undo at least 4 years of neglect to the place. At present and for the last 25 years Sue and I have run parallel businesss working at the festivals during the summer. We have got extremely fed up with modern festivals and the noise levels at them. We have enjoyed small camps where like minded people gather in a field and spend 10 days learning and performing circle dances to the accompaniment of fiddles and accordions and we think the energy at healing camps is something special. I am an engineer and very into alt /eco tech and would love to have a place embodying those principles which could be a show home with space for people to live while they came and learnt/provided energy for the next project. Occasionally I am noisy when on a building project ie. building a woodburner needs use of angle grinders etc. but am willing to work around others quiet moments if requested. I have 2 well equipped workshops at separate addresses at present which we will combine at the school into a fully equipped workshop the use of which would be available subject to conditions . At present I include amongst my tools a plasma cutter TIG welder MIG welder 230 amp stick welder metal cutting bandsaw, saw table for cutting wood or metal etc. these are in metal workshop and in wood w/shop I have Dewalt radial arm saw, router bench, bench planer, etc... etc. being hand tools. Most of my work is periodic in nature I may not use my workshops for months at a time I also have 10 tons of engineered lumber ( laminated birch strips 3.6 meters in length by 40 mm square which can be glued together to create larger sizes.) and largish amounts of other building materials, wiring etc. I also have 2.5 kw of solar panels, 2,700 ampere batteries, 2.5 studa pure sine wave inverter, 12v 8track hard disk recorder about 500 watts of 12v sound system and lots of instruments Our present businesss consist of me running a Magic Hat mobile sauna showers hot tub and relaxation area with Sue having a stall selling my handcrafted jewellery and her collection of pretty clothes, crafts, jewellery etc..... this cooperation has toured the UK festivals from May to September for the last 25 years. Previous to this time I did varied work including as a skilled car and lorry mechanic, I built the outriggers for Chay Blyths transatlantic race winning trimaran Beefeater 3. helped people do up houses rebuilt classic cars and bikes........I am generally an early riser enjoying 6am most mornings and work long hours. Sue doesnt like 6am prefers 10am or so I have a collection of vehicles all in roadworthy condition 2 of which are sorned at present but could be useful in the future.. a classic commercial exarmy Bedford 4x4 rated by army for 4 ton payload and a year 2000 7.5 ton mitsubishi canter on which I plan to build my next camper/ sauna and relaxation space. The vehicles I have road legal at present are a 1988 mercedes camper/work vehicle a landrover with galvanised chassis and mazda 3.5 tdi with mercedes auto gearbox and an 04 peugeot partner for a run about.(Ive got classic bikes too mostly projects) Merc, Landy and Bedford are Multi fuel and capable of running on 100% vegoil etc. I am researching gasifiers stoves at present We can supply references as to our relative sanity, work capability etc. from lots of festival organisers and people we have worked with over the years Yours Sue and Mark Yours faithfully M J Dicker ps. This letter is not inclusive of all the options and variations we have considered but is a synopsis to give a general impression of us and our thoughts while remaining of readable length. Additions following draft sent to friend for appraisal of coherency Following the death of my father I inherited a bit less than half a bungalow the sale of this gave me enough capital to purchase the school with a few thousand left over ( according to the estate agent mortgages had been refused on this property because of the planning permission on it). At the time of purchase I was under the impression that grants were available for insulation etc. and further grants available from the tourist board, council etc. for development...the recession seems to have stopped these grants or they only apply to residential properties. This has seriously slowed down the plans we had for making the school functional again.
Posted on: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:27:07 +0000
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