John Dourley, a Jungian analyst living in the Glebe, and Kevin Morris discuss the novel In Times Wanting John Dourley. There are two key moments in your novel, when Eileen has her vision, and Berrin his, later though than Eileen. Kevin Morris. Everyone has intense moments that define their lives, often they are very negative and it takes years to overcome them. And Berrin’s near execution in Mexico definitely marked him. J.D. You did succeed in capturing that sense of union with the universe that Eileen experienced, it felt like that sense of direct connection with the world that Lévy-Brühl’s describes as a “Participation mystique.” K.M. I saw Eileen’s and Berrin’s quite differently. Eileen’s has led her into a bad marriage, which drives Berrin up north to escape his crisis over this. Only in getting together with Eileen again does he have his. J.D. You do have a quick start-up to their relationship, she sleeps with him right off. K.M. In first meeting up with Berrin, I don’t think she intended to make love with him, she just needs a hug and to talk about her failing marriage. And it’s natural she wants to join him in his sofa bed, his room is too cold. He’s the one who is pushing. J.D. You do well in narrating dreams, they are important and work well in the novel. I’m thinking now of the one where the old woman enters their room and comes in between Berrin and Eileen. He has the dream the first night he visits Eileen at her home up the Pontiac. The old woman is a significant mother archetype, which speaks well of the complex of emotions that keeps them apart. K.M. With hindsight, I was seeing the old woman as a transformation of Eileen’s spirit, who puts a stronger and more clear message to Berrin. If anything I thought she was the wise old woman, I don’t remember if there’s such a thing in the Jungian scheme of things. A Sophia perhaps. The question is, does he give her enough time and space? J.D. Given Berrin’s state, I see the old lady as another version of the mother archetype, a higher rendition of the bear symbol. And there are a lot of bears in his dreams, and bears can definitely hug the life out of you. K.M. He is pulled in a number of directions, memories of his near execution in Mexico, his mother’s farm, his need to write, his new world language program he’s invented. He likes his housing coop, he hangs out at the local Artist Run Centre. He likes the friends he’s developing at the Byward where he’s working. He’s trying to create a new life. J.D. I had to laugh when he says how few if any of his friends understood him after he has had his vision, if we can call it that. In a way I found myself identifying with that from my own life, first studying Tillich, when I’d start talking to someone about the psyche as a sacrament for example, their eyes would drop to the floor, then when I moved onto Jung , that didn’t improve things. K.M. That’s very funny. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. J.D. I was wondering how much is autobiographical. I feel I know who Eileen is. K.M. Totally fictional, though I draw on stuff from my life, it’s natural. Like the crafts, I helped start up Snapdragon here in the Glebe, and another in the Byward Market. But fiction is truth, right?
Posted on: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 02:35:20 +0000
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