Why APC must prepare for upset - Dosumu Dr Ade Dosunmu, an astute public administrator and governorship candidate of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Lagos State in 2011, speaks on 2015 elections, the Fashola administration and other vital issues, in this interview with KUNLE ODEREMI. How would you rationalise the question of leadership in Nigeria, especially political leadership, over the years? Let me say the issue of leadership globally is not something you can toy with. It is something that evolves over years and quality leadership is as a result of a lot of things. You talk about training, education, experience, exposure, and even age. All these put together are what make a leader. Nigeria as a country with more than 160 million people, is blessed with quality human resources in all sectors of our national lives. If you look at it from the angle of the fact that you see a lot of Nigerians, who, when they step out of the shores of this country, do very well. And whereas, when some of them were here, you would be wondering why they have not been able to achieve those feats. And then you begin to wonder what can be responsible for it. I think our environment has not really encouraged the development or encouraged people to actualise their potential. There are so many things that we have brought into our system that have not actually allowed us to really screen those who have a new potential, skills, aptitude, for certain things to hold certain positions. For instance, we have something like federal character; in some cases, we even sacrificed merit for mediocrity in other to achieve certain things either for purposes of balancing or what have you. Where I am going is that leadership is something that is crucial in the success of any endeavour. We must bear that in mind and put it in our subconscious. It is not something we can toy with. The spirit of any organisation, society, any group flows from the top. That is what psychologists, who have done a lot of studies on leadership say, if you get it right at the top, you are likely to get it. So, I believe that Nigeria as a country should start putting more efforts in developing quality leadership; should start putting more efforts in identifying those who have the capacity to lead. Nigeria should not take election or appointment or whatever into leadership position for granted as if it is only to just fill a position. No! if you get it right, you are good for it; if you get it wrong, you can destroy the success you have achieved over the decades. So, I want to say that Nigeria is blessed with leaders. Nigeria as a country has quality leaders. It is a different thing whether we have been able to utilise those people properly for the benefit of the larger society. Don’t you believe the political parties have a great role if Nigeria must have the kind of leadership you are talking about? I agree that the parties have a greater role to play. But politics, by its nature, is struggle for power. Sometimes, it is not the best that get into position of leadership. There are lots of other manipulations that come into the struggle for political relevance. And if somebody that does not really have the qualities of being a good leader is better equipped in terms of political manipulations, in terms of being savvy and being able to outsmart the one that has a better quality to hold that position, you would be surprised that the person that is less qualified will get there because of the nature of politics. Some of these things have to do with the level of development of the country. What is the nature of politics in Nigeria? It is that at a point in time, we used to say what we have is a nascent democracy. But that is no longer applicable because this is a project we have pursued going to 15 years now. I want to believe that our political experience is still evolving; it is evolving because we cannot compare what we see now with the quality of legislature we had in 1999. Are you saying there is a marked improvement now? Of course, because 1999 was a teething period and they [stakeholders] must have made some mistakes, learning from those mistakes, learning the ropes and all other. But 2011, it was a different ball game because we have people within the legislature that have even spent 12 years in that arm of government. You cannot compare the complexities of the situation now with the complexities of the situation in 1999 because now, people are becoming more aware of their rights; they are asking questions. People are no longer sitting back. There are lots of civil society groups coming out, engaging the people in government, asking questions and all other. That makes it different from our earlier experience. So, what I’m saying is that part of politics is that you must have the right political culture, which Nigeria is just developing. I remember that in 1999, you had to beg people to come and vote and they would say, they were not politicians so why should they vote at elections. But now, everybody is a politician, so to speak. You would be surprised that people on the street, the level of grasp and understanding of political issues. Let’s look beyond the environment and political culture issue you have talked about. Why is it difficult for the country to have disciplined, vibrant and visionary leaders, as the present political leaders see the practical impact of true leadership in countries in Europe and Asia each time they travel outside Nigeria? Those countries have developed their institutions. For instance in the United States, apart from when the budget is presented, once it is passed by the Congress, that is the end; the American president has nothing to do with its implementation. There are institutions that will take care of the implementation. I want a situation, where Nigeria will get to a stage where the only time when we discuss, argue and look at the budget is at the beginning of the year. Once it is passed, let every institution that has responsibility to implement the budget act accordingly. Running and coming back to seek approval for N10 by the Federal Executive Council (FEC) after the budget is passed is unnecessary. The budget that is passed is a specific budget: build this road, do this tarmac, buy this vehicle, and so on. Let the budget run on auto pilot and at the end of the year, what you will do is to evaluate the institutions with responsibilities to implement the budget. If it is not done, it means a minister saddled with the responsibility of implementing the budget has failed. We cannot bug ourselves with the nitty-gritty of budget implementation. It is supposed to come once in a year. That is why people talk about bureaucracy, bottleneck and red-tape because we allow it to slow us down. Why must we be picking papers when you have a budget that has been approved? Why must papers for contracts come back for approval again when you have already a Due Process Office? You have an approved budget. If the one for this year, let’s for ministry of health, is N10 billion, I think our emphasis should be to thoroughly scrutinise before the budget is approved. Once it is approved, we should not put cog in the wheel of implementation. Let the agencies implement and we monitor. There are deliverables; a budget is for a period of 12 months and all the projects to be delivered are specified. There are specific amounts allocated to projects. I believe that those countries you mentioned have solid institutions that allow their system to run without being choked. So, that is why Nigerians will travel out of their country and excel because the system they found themselves is such that it helps you to actually give your best; not like a system that you will first waste and dissipate your energy on things that are not even related to your job. I feel to move from the level we are to the next level, we must develop strong institutions that will make the act of governance to be on auto pilot. Then, it means the PDP, as the ruling party since 1999, has failed the country, having been unable to take Nigeria to the next level you talked about? The PDP has been coming up with policies and programmes that I would say were of a good intention. The policies and programmes were meant to take us to that level. The issue we should asking ourselves is why we have not been able to get to that level, despite the fact that there are policies and programmes the party has put in place to get us to that level. The first one is due process. Before the tenure of former president, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, there was nothing like due process. And the essence of due process is for us to have value for money; that if you are spending any money, you must get value for it. Again, I can remember that at a point in time. The government came up with National Economic Empowerment and Development Strategy (NEEDS). It was also a policy that was meant to drive growth and development. I also know that the government is equally trying to divest in areas, where they felt that the private sector has better skills to manage. These are part of what the government is trying to put in place to ensure development and growth. But where I think we may be getting it wrong is that we do not separate politics from governance. It is not every politician that has the capacity to be in government. It is not everybody in government that has the capacity to play politics. Where we mix the two up is what is responsible for the type of results we are getting. You see somebody who, throughout his life, has been a politician; he has never worked anywhere, he has never held any office; he has no administrative experience. And the next day, you put him in a position, where so much is expected from his experience. What do you expect him to do? A square peg in a round hole! It will take him the first one year in trying to understand what he has to do; what his job entails. So, when we are appointing people, we should look at their aptitudes, their background. We want the best for our country; we want the best for the system. Everybody has where he can perform well. One of the traditions in the political circle for leaders of parties that win elections is to insist on rewarding party members regarded as having contributed immensely towards ensuring victory at the polls. It is under the euphemism political, patronage…. There are so many ways of rewarding them. But how many people can be ministers? You have 42 ministers in all. You have six geopolitical zones and we must understand that it is the prerogative of the president to appoint ministers. But what they are saying is that for every party member that has worked for the government to be made a minister. It is now left for the man at the saddle to look at those who have the qualities that he wants. He can decide to go for core professionals and experts in special fields of discipline. It does not mean that those people are better than others. But they have the type of skills that the president needs to deliver the dividends of democracy for the people and to also enhance the perception of Nigerians about his government and his party. It is not a tea party; it is not job for the boys, as they say. No, it is definitely not about garbage in, garbage out. The quality of people that you bring in will inform the type of policies and programmes that people should expect from your government; it is all about what those you are bringing on board can do. In effect, that is the kind of vision that seems to be working for the APC, given the enviable strides of its governors in the South-West, particularly in Lagos State? I don’t want to believe that any party has a monopoly of good people or bad people. You have a lot of good people in the PDP, sound people, just as you have in the APC. You also have bad people in both parties; they are everywhere. So, every political party is a reflection of the society. There is no society that is dominated by only good people. What is most important is that if you have more good people and when you now decide to form government, use your good people, not the bad ones within your fold. Now, I do not believe that the PDP has done badly if you look at the story over the years, but I feel that we can do better as a party in the sense that there are a lot of distractions, which if we are able to put our house in order, energy that is dissipated on trying to resolve all manner of crises can be channeled into productive use and service of the people. Like I said earlier, we must separate governance from politics at all times, because the focus and objectives of the two are different at all times. The objective of politics is to gain power, access to power and control of power. The objective of governance is to deliver dividends of democracy to the people. The strategy cannot be the same; the strategy you will use in gaining political power cannot be the same strategy and people you will use to deliver social services, dividends of democracy, good programmes and policies. Again, perhaps, the ability of the APC leaders to demarcate between politics and governance is making their governors to do well in office. Don’t you think so? When you say the APC governors are doing well is relative. I want to say, some PDP governors are doing well, just as you have in the APC too. I can mention so many governors that are doing well in both parties. So, I don’t think it is the party per se; I think it is the individuals. What I mean is that perhaps, the parties have gotten it right in those states by choosing those particular people that are doing well because if you look at it, while should others not do well. After all, they all have the same resources in terms of they get their money from the same political party, they have the same access to the presidency or whatever? They have more or less, a level-playing field. But, I feel that the reason those that are doing well is because, one, the passion differs. Two, the determination differs. Three, the process that also produced them may be the same, but this particular time, maybe they got it right in those states by choosing those who can deliver the good. We all know that more often than not, we manipulate processes and in trying to favour some particular candidates, who may not even have the passion, the quality, the drive and what it takes to hold that position, but because he is in our good books and we want him there, we will go about and do everything to make sure that the person emerges and when he gets there, we now realise that this not what we expect. So, I think that to a large extent, leaders, particularly those in political authority, should allow candidates for election for any position to emerge out of popular contest. You came into the political arena with professional savvy and pedigree, but many feel you joined the wrong party and that if you had been in APC, you would have achieved more through elective or appointive offices? No, I don’t think so, because I always tell people that I’m not a professional politician. I am a professional in politics. A professional politician is the one that will play politics without principle. But a professional in politics will play politics based on principle and my politics is guided by principle; my politics is guided by service to the people; my politics is guided by my determination to add value to my people, the community and the nation. My politics is guided by ideology and my ideology is based on service to the majority. So, if I see a government whose policies and programmes impact positively on the lives of the majority, I’m ok with that government. But if I see a government which policies and programmes do not impact on the lives of the majority, I do not think I will want to identify with it. So, where I am going is that one, I have my own understanding of the way I expect government should run maybe because I worked in government and I have done so many things in and out of government and I believe if I have the opportunity to serve, I will do things in a way that it will impact on the lives of the majority. You mean just like the APC government is doing in Lagos? I wouldn’t say that is what is happening in Lagos State except you go the field and find out from the people whether the policies of the government have impacted positively on them or not. I am just one out of more than 16 million Lagosians, so I am not in a position to speak for them. That is also not to say that the government is not doing things that are good. That is not to say that some people in the state are not enjoying some of the policies and programmes of the government. I am just saying that we should target the majority and not the few. And to a large extent, I believe that, if given the opportunity, the present crop of professionals, young, experienced, agile, determined people within the Lagos PDP now can give a better service to the people of the state. But, what significance could you have made in office, if you had defeated incumbent Governor Babatunde Fashola during the 2011 governorship polls in the state? Before Fashola became the governor of the state, I am sure nobody could say, ‘oh, this man that is coming to power would perform.’ But because they gave him the opportunity, that’s why he was able to do what he has done and that does not mean that, that is the best anybody can do. There are so many people who can do better than he had done, because don’t forget that everybody comes from a different background. Fashola’s background is different from mine; he is a lawyer, who had been in private practice before he became the governor. I am a public administrator, who has worked in government all my years. So, our perspectives will be different; the way we look at issues; the way we run government, the way we address issues of governance could be different based on differences in our background. So, many things I would have done differently. Education would have been on the front burner because that’s the future of the state. the first four years of Fashola, Lagos had no commissioner for Education. It was during our debate that I queried why he should say the state deputy governor was supervising education. The job of the deputy governor is time-consuming enough, talk less of adding the responsibility of education to that office. It is only in his second term that Fashola now appointed a commissioner for education, whereas, I would have looked for a very sound educational administrator, maybe a professor in education or somebody, who is an expert in development of educational policies to be the commissioner and churn out policies that will drive the educational sector. Lagos is the only state that has the largest enrolment in the country in terms of primary and secondary schools. Therefore, you need a very robust educational policy and system to be able to accommodate and address that large enrolment. You also need a sound and seasoned educational administrator to be able to manage the complexities of educational administration in a cosmopolitan setting. You cannot compare somebody in a secondary school with another student in a secondary school in Ila-Oragun, who can stroll from his house to school; who does have distractions. A student in Lagos will have to contend and struggle with workers to go to school, transportation, the complexities of the unban nature of Lagos will also have its negaticve impact on him. You need an educational administrator to bring all these on the table when they are designing policies. For instance, LASU, when the first civilian governor of the state, Alhaji Lateef Jakande founded the university, it was a non-residential institution. But if I were the governor, what made LASU non-residential then are no longer the same. LASU students stay around the Ojo-Okokomaiko-Alaba axis competing for accommodation with the natives and workers. How do you think the university can pass through them, if they don’t even have the opportunity to live together and enjoy the serenity a university environment? The land is there. There is also the issue of fee there and I would not look at increasing it from N30,000 to N200,000 because I know that, that will defeat the real essence of the establishment of the university, which is what is happening now. Now, enrolment is going down and I can tell you that in another two or three years, LASU may not have more than 1000 students because UNILAG is paying N25,000; OAU [N25,000-N30,000]. No university is paying more than N30,000. Our government should realise one thing: they should separate government and business. The real essence of government is for welfare and security. And under welfare, you have public health and public education; all these are the responsibilities of government and that is why it collects tax; that is why you see the differences between public schools and private schools. We are products of public school: from primary to the university. So, if such system can produce some of us, including governor Fashola, why must we not give so much to the public school system so that it can also produce those whose parents may not even have the resources to send them to private? Why didn’t you take some time to learn through the ropes before taking a shot at the governorship seat, especially against a winning team? What about Governor Fashola? He underwent pupilage under former governor Bola Tinubu as chief of staff. I was a director-general of a Grade A parastatal of the Federal Government. I was an executive director and I was an assistant general manager in the Nigerian Port Authority before I moved to NEMASA and I have lectured in the university [UNILAG] in the School of Post-Graduate Studies since 2002 to date and I have not taught anything other than government and public policy. So, that was the level I aspired for and thank God to the people of Lagos State, particularly members of my great party, the PDP, who found me worthy of their support. They found me worthy of being the candidate of the party. Why are you still interested in succeeding Fashola being a Muslim, when the agitation is gaining ground that the next governor must be a Christian? Those behind that campaign are doing a very serious disservice to whoever they have in mind because if you know the politics of Lagos, they don’t play politics with religion. There is no family in Lagos you will see Muslims, you won’t see Christians. My own immediate senior brother is a Christian. I married from a Christian home. Some of my families are Christians, others are Muslims and that is the way every Lagos family is. So, the campaign based on religion cannot work in Lagos. All of us supported late Engineer Funsho Williams. Did you ever hear anybody talking about religion then when he was running for governor? So, the campaign is going to be dead on arrival. What is the guarantee that you can deliver the governorship to PDP this time around, if the party again offers you its ticket? Over the years, the PDP has been struggling and working hard to win Lagos and one or two reasons have been responsible for our failures, but this time around, I can comfortably tell you now that the PDP is one family in the state. We have the same objective, which is to form the next government in the state. Part of the determination is what has made us to forget our differences. Lagosians are eager for change. I want to say winning the ticket of any part requires a lot of hard work and determination. One thing about the PDP is that it is the only party that still allows for internal democracy; everybody will go the field, unlike other parties where they impose candidates.
Posted on: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:11:09 +0000
Trending Topics
Recently Viewed Topics
© 2015