‘World’s talking about Afghanistan, Syria. J&K was on backburner. With this concert, it’s back’ PranabDhalSamanta In thisIdea Exchange, German ambassadorMichael Steiner talks aboutwhy Kashmir should be proud of the ZubinMehta concert,says it was a legitimatediplomaticexercise,explains the reasonhe hosted Modi and wishes India doesnotsquanderits economicchances. The sessionwas moderatedby Pranab Dhal Samanta of The Indian Express Pranab Dhal Samanta: Tell us aboutthe Srinagar concert—youwere sayingit was quite a nightmaregettingit organisedthroughthe Indian system. Also aboutyour country,whichis having its elections and is the onebright spotin Europe currently. At times,it feels thata lot of responsibilitieshave beenthrust on Germany, more than what Germany wants to take on at times. This concertwas of coursea huge logisticalundertakingfor an embassy. I was underpressurefor whetherI couldguarantee security. I was prettysurewe would have the security,butthatwas the priority. The world was in a positionto seeit, becauseit was showneverywhere.The only critiqueI have is thatyou didn’t see what really happenedat Shalimar Bagh. What really happenedwas thatyou had, of course,the VIPs, musicians,officials, buta huge majorityof normalKashmiris sittingon the lawns. Boat owners, shopkeepersand students,even formerstone-pelters... Of course,music-wise, it was fantastic,especiallythe Kashmiri song... You think it’s five minutes.In reality, what happenedwas that we wantedthe Bavarian State Orchestrato presenta Kashmiri song togetherwith the Kashmiris. But the problemwas all the traditional Kashmiri songs wereneverputinto note,therewas neveran arrangement,and the musiciansdid notspeakEnglish. They had neverheardaboutthe orchestra,and the samewas truefor the orchestra. So what we did with the help of the Internetand e-mails was thatyoungSopori (Abhay) trained with 15 musiciansin Srinagar, and at the sametimein Munich, the Bavarian State Orchestratrained for thisonesong... So musiciansherehad to learn to play together with an orchestrathatthey had neverseen and had two days to train, and they did it... 7,000 km apart. It was perfect,justperfect. You mighthave seen a lot of resistance,with stone-agearguments like the ‘Hitler of India’, ‘Zionist’... butif you leave aside thatsideof the discussion,whichwas very heavy, with threats, the reproachwas thatthisconcertwill show only the beautifulsituationof Kashmir and notthe difficult reality. We always said that’s notwhat we want, becauseif you bring a concertthere,you bring a lot of journalists, and if you have read the internationalpress,that’s what happened.I think that(Hurriyat hardlinerSyed Ali Shah) Geelani has notreceived suchan internationalplatformthathe had there.So the concert broughtoutnotjustthe beauty of Kashmir, butalso other voices.The moderates(came out)—it’s noteasy for them.We have seen a sortof catharticdebate, whichis very necessary.In the past,thingswereput underthe carpet, now the Kashmiris had an open debate—underthe restrainedcircumstancesthatyou have there. Modern diplomacyis notstate-to-state relations.It is bringingcivil societytogetherthroughmusic and culture.I’m happywe held throughtill the end. We plannedfor 1,500, in the endwe had 2,700. That was the absolutelimit we couldputin thishistoricplace, Shalimar Bagh. We werereproached,‘Why didn’t you have an open-air concert?’. It’s very easy to give the answer,we couldn’t do a Woodstockconcerttherebecausethe securitysituationwouldn’t allow it. But to every Kashmiri, within the limit of the numberswe couldhave, who wantedto come,we sent an invitation. MuzamilJaleel: The questionbeingaskedis if Germany has changed its stanceon Kashmir. What is Germany’s stanceon Kashmir? Germany is very clear. We are in favour of a peacefulsolution... To makeit clear, you have asked‘Why an embassy?’ I think exactlyan embassyshould do thisbecausepart of our job is a more modern form of diplomacy,bringingcivil societiestogether,and cultureis an importantpart. But it was also importantto avoid anythingstate-related.Therefore,in the concert,we decidednotto play any national hymns of India or Germany. Secondly,we did notinvite the top leadershipof India. All thesepointsmade sureit was purelya culturalevent, we also made sureof thiswhen it cameto our speeches. If I have in my residenceoneof the best maestrosyou have from India, if I as someonefrom Munich can connectwith oneof the best orchestraswe have there,if we can provide as an embassya live show where peoplesittingin Bavaria, where I comefrom, can see somethinghappeningin Kashmir—youcouldhave seen or listenedto it in the United States, in Europe, at the feetof the Himalayas—if you had a chanceto do that,I think you must. I thoughtit was the right thing. Of coursewe had to assure no State insignia; it was financedby benevolentdonors. It was very expensive.For seven or eight months I was constantlyon the telephone,writinglettersto the German economy,Indian economy,privatedonors. We saw six-seven sites, butI was immediatelyfor Shalimar Bagh becauseit was the heart of Kashmir. But it was in a ratherpoorcondition.They did what they had notdone in years to restoreit. Talk to Saleem Beg (of Intach), he was incredible. MuzamilJaleel: One reasonfor angeris thatthereweremassive restrictionson movement.And peoplewho werechosenwerenotjust music lovers, they weregovernmentofficials, or well-connected. Studentsof Kashmir Universitywerealso notallowedin. Was there any resistancefrom the governmentof India towards the show? We had to convincethe Indian government.We wereaskedto deal with it ourselves,the securityissues.On the secondpoint,thesewere invitationsfrom me and my wife. We can’t do ticketing,whichwould have beenabsurd. An embassycan’t ask for a price, I’m nota company. So, we had to guaranteesecurity,we couldn’t do an open concert,we wantedto makesurethateverybodywho wantedto be there,within the limit of the numberswe had, couldcome.So, two weeks before the concertwe said anyonewho wants to comethere can come.So we had, in the end,2,700 people.They all got invitationsbecausemostof themcalledus and e-mailed us in the last two weeks. It’s truethatthereweresomepeoplethatthe governmentsaid wererisky, and we neededto rely on the government.I’m a foreign embassy,it’s a sovereignstate, of courseI needthe governmentfor security,I needto cooperatewith the state. Even on the last day we gave outinvitation cards, I justkept onefor memory.Look at any concertin the world, thereare VIPs, and it’s good,it engagesalso... Of coursewe neededto have the chief minister,butthe importantthingis we had ordinary Kashmiris there. SuanshuKhurana: If it was a privateconcert,why projectit as a peaceconcert? I always said it’s nota peaceconcert. It’s an illusion thatwith a culturalevent you can mix politics,butcultureis very powerful. Peopletherehad tearsin their eyes. We have goodcars from Germany, butthat’s notthe best we have. The real goodthingwe have is our culturalmusical heritage. Beethoven,the piecewas writtenin 1803, that’s the best we can offer. I think it was rightto call thisa sign of respectto the Kashmiris. I think peopletruly understoodit. After the concertwas over, you should have seen how peoplereacted. What is the world talking about? Afghanistan,Syria, EU debtcrisis. Kashmir was on the backburner. With thislive broadcastby more than 100 TV stations,it camebackin the internationalcommunity. Girish Bablani*: Hurriyat moderateleaderMirwaiz Umar Farooqsaid thatinsteadof a concert,it would have beenmore useful if you built a hospitalthere. The concertis notan alternativeto a hospital,butit is a mobiliserfor hospitals.My embassyis rightnow supportingtwo medical projects—near Soporeand near Baramulla. The problemis we needto mobilise supportfor doing this. This upcomingweek, therewill be in the embassythe ownerof a companywith a turnover of 180 million euros. He produceshi-tech measurementmachines. He calledme last week and said he wantedto establisha technicalengineering training facility. That’s exactlywhat India needs,vocational training. I said to him let’s do thisin Kashmir. In orderto get him there,how do you think peopleget interestedin thesethings? I’m notsayingto embellishthe place, butinterestpeople.So in this magicalplace, you had thisincredibleconcert. Have you seen the violin soloistwho played? He was incredible. You know what he earnedfor this? Zero. The wholeBavarian State Orchestradid thisin their holidays. ZubinMehta did notget onepenny. Coomi Kapoor: Thereare reportsthatsomeof themare upset,that they thoughtthey would be playingto the wholeof Kashmir in general and nota small elitecrowd. That was nota statementby the orchestra. The facts are clear, 2,700 peoplecannotbe VIPs. Where do you find so many there?Therewere womenwith scarves,do you think they wereVIPs? Under the given circumstances,I don’t know any systemthatwas more open... And don’t forget we had two live screensin Kashmir and on almostevery TV you couldwatch. MuzamilJaleel: Therewas also an interestingoppositionthistime. It was another music programmein a park. They also invitedyou. I thoughtit was a very cleveridea, thatthey said ‘You do Ehsaas-e-Kashmir and we will show the reality’. I said to the government:let it happen. Originally it was plannedto be at noon. I said if I’m invited, I’m happyto come.But thenit was happeningparallel to the concert and I couldn’t go. I think it was a healthythingthatit was not forbidden. ...Why aren’t you proud thatthis(the Mehta concert) happened?It’s incredible. There’s a very catharticdebate, therewerepros and cons, whichis fine. You have the best you can have there,your own conductor.You have Kashmiri musicianswho wereso proud they couldbe seen by the world. Be proud. It was an enormoussuccess for Kashmir, frankly. ShubhajitRoy: Justas you tookthe lead in organisingthisconcert, earlier thisyear you tookthe lead in hostinga lunchfor Gujarat chief ministerNarendraModi at your residence. I think what we did as the European Union was the rightthing. It was notabouttakingsides.You know we needto have a convincing language. If we say thatIndia is the largestdemocracyin the world and we trustthe legal systems,thenI don’t think it’s up to us, at the EU, to replacethe judicial systemhereand say, ‘We don’t care what the electionresult is, we refuseto have any contactwith Mr Modi’. I think it was rightbecauseyou cannothave it both ways. Let’s talk aboutthe lunch. You know where Mr Modi wentafter my residence?He wentto seePresidentPranab Mukherjee,who had no problemseeinghim. So is it for us, the foreign representatives,to tell you...? If your judicial systemsays he is guilty,thenit’s fine. But as longas it’s a systemthatwe recognise,thereis a contradiction. The secondthingis, even among the peoplewho I talked to in the reigning coalition, they said, ‘We don’t want thatyou take sidesin the upcomingelectionand take a moral stand, whichis noteven taken by our own systems’...We are diplomatsand we needto be consistent. Therewas no economicreasonbehind it. German companies—and thereare 7,000 of them,the Indo-German Chamberof Commerceis the biggestin the world—don’t needme for that. I think it was a situationwhere after threeelections,the judicial systemhasn’t pronouncedanything... So thatwas justto have a cleanerposition after a longtime...We didn’t go on a pilgrimage. I think thatit was exactlythe rightthingto do. If we wouldn’t have done that,where would we be? We would have createda martyr, and thatis notour role. Pranab Dhal Samanta: Sincehow longhad Germany beenthinking aboutthis,becauseit also coincidedwith Modi’s arrival on the national scene? It was after the (Assembly) electionsstartedin Gujarat and before the resultswereannounced.Therewereoneor two weeks in between. We didn’t go before the Gujarat electionsbecausewe didn’t want to interfere.We didn’t want to do it after the results,becauseit would seem we justreactedto the larger result. We had beenthinkingabout it, for the reasonsI mentionedbefore. YP Rajesh: Have you thoughtabouthaving similar conversationswith Rahul Gandhi? We had them.Justto clarify, he was invitedto oneof our regular lunches.Next week we have onewith another chiefminister. ShekharGupta: Is nuclear poweran issuein the German elections?Is thereoneview or more than one? Nuclearpoweris notan issueat all, and thereis nobody who thinks it’s an issue.Thereis a debateaboutthe speedand whetherit is too quick or not,producinghighelectricityprices. We are buying nuclear powerfrom neighbouringcountriesbutthey are also usinga lot of our alternativeenergy. We are an exporterof energy, notimporter... In Germany thereis only onesubjectfor the campaign, which intereststhe peopleand nobody talksaboutit, and that’s very good. In reality, peopleare concernedaboutwhat happenswith the stability of the Eurozone.The opposingSocialDemocraticParty, if they give in to get popular, they couldimmediatelyappeal to the fears of the peopleand say, ‘Why should we pay ratesfor the South Europeans,it is unfair’. It would be a popular line. They have notdone that. It is becausewe understandthatGermany, in our betterinterests,notfor moral reasons,is a European country... We have learntnotto play with thisissueand notto instrumentalisethisissue,even at the risk of losing in the elections. Because Germany is nota national countryanymore. Its economyis based on the European market...Germany has 80 million inhabitants, and every politicianhas realised thatif we re-nationalised, we would be gone. Dilip Bobb: Is immigrationan issue? The reality of Germany has changed. About20% of the studentsin universitiesare foreignersand 30% of the populationhas an immigrantbackground.The secondthingis, if you compareIndia and Germany, we are surely an economicpowerhouse,butyou are a demographicpowerhouse,and you will be the youngestcountryin the world. If you look at what India needsand has, and what Germany needsand has, it is fantastic.We have universitiesthatprovide free educationand we also have vocation becauseour societyis much olderthan yours. We also understandthatwe needto have people comeand studyherefor a while. It is very complementary... Immigrationis notan issue.We have a course,whichnobody denies is right,for liberalisation. Kaunain Sheriff*: India and the EU are still initiatingthe Free Trade Agreement. Germany has beenvery vocal in its demand to open up the automobileand insurancesectors. The problemis notso much the trade exchange,the real issueis investment.It is a free trade and investmentagreement.Potential investorsmay want to investsomewhereelse where it would be better.This money is thenlost. If you want to achieve 8% growth, you needforeign investment.If we get progressanywhere else and fail here,it doesn’t do goodto India. If we have a naturalpartner, it would be India. Europe with its very sophisticatedsocialsecuritysystemis very strong,and so are you. We should notmissthischance... It is whetherwe have the political will and powerto concludeit.
Posted on: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 09:54:19 +0000