Anyone opposed to Jonathan’s second term should challenge him in court – Umar Abubakar Dangiwa Umar, a retired Colonel of the Nigeria Army was military governor of Kaduna State from August 1985 to June 1988. Since retiring from the army in 1993, Umar has been a social critic and human rights activist. In this exclusive interview with PATRICK OKOHUE, the retired army officer turned farmer speaks on varying national issues including why those opposed to President Goodluck Jonathan should go to court to try to stop him rather than relying on sentiments. He also speaks on the crisis in the PDP, his view of the G-7 rebel governors and why he thinks the present government is doing its best in fighting the Boko Haram insurgency President Jonathan recently, during his independence day broadcast set up a Committee to advise him on modalities for the convocation of a national conference, are you in support of such a conference and if yes, what modalities should it take? For some time now there have been strident agitations for the convocation of a national dialogue or conference. Some have even gone as far as calling for a sovereign national which, in essence will send both the executive and legislature on break while it lasts. People are divided on the motives, aim, objectives and even basis of representation. There are those who want the conference to decide on the new structure for the country, restructuring if you want, perhaps to return to our regional structure or a zonal one. There are those who are interested in more devolution of power to the federating units. Some extremists believe we should just meet and partition the country or go our separate ways. To this latter group our amalgamation in 1914 was a mistake, citing the distinct cultural differences between the Northern and Southern protectorates as the main cause of our disunity and lack of progress as a nation. Ignoring the fact that the Southern protectorates were a product of similar socio political engineering with as much cultural diversity as you have in the country; yet others are simply interested in economic federalism. What are the motives? Some are genuinely convinced that a restructuring of the country will result in an efficient federal system; others are motivated by frustration even bitterness that we are involved in an unequal relationship and they want an opportunity to demand equality failing which they will opt out of the union. The rise in demand for such a conference during the June 12 crisis is a case in this category. Nigerian leaders have also sought to use national dialogue to achieve personal goals – Abacha’s transmutation agenda and Obasanjo’s attempt to amend the constitution to achieve a Third Term. Some also deploy national conference as a scare tactics. Whatever the aim, objectives and motives it is now evident, from the reactions of all sections to the President’s announcement of plans to convoke such a conference, that it enjoys popular support. My support or opposition is therefore not important. As to the modalities, the President has created a Committee to recommend such; as they say, two heads are better than one. The 13-member committee comprising eminent Nigerians is more competent than me to recommend such modalities. We should therefore await their recommendations. Between the National Conference and Constitution Review, which do you think should take precedence and why? It is obvious, if by precedence you mean which comes first. I imagine that all decisions reached by the conference will be incorporated in the 1999 constitution. So the conference takes precedence. It cannot have legislative powers with a democratically elected states and national Assemblies in place. What aspects of the constitution do you think deserve urgent amendment for the nation to run better? Very few. It is not the inadequacy of the constitution that accounts for the nation’s poor state; it is a function of poor application of its provisions. Britain is a well administered country with an unwritten constitution, it has good leadership and responsible and patriotic citizens, in simple terms we can illustrate the point. It takes a bad and reckless driver to wreck the best built car. Our extant constitution is replete with provisions that sanction corrupt acts and yet corruption is festering; why? Well, because its operators have decided to set the laws aside. We don’t need to amend such laws or create new ones. All we need is for the operators to keep faith with the existing ones. There has been so much talk about the belief that President Jonathan may be planning to seek re-election in 2015 and the allegation that he signed a pact not to seek re-election when he was running in 2011. What will be your advice to him in view of the fact that this perception is already heating up the polity? Why should there be such talk about President Jonathan’s intention to seek re-election in 2015? People are talking as if President Jonathan is about to commit a heinous crime by his declaration. Haven’t all our past Presidents sought and gotten re-elected for a second term? They did so with high sense of entitlement. Why should it be different with Jonathan? Recall when Chief MKO Abiola declared his intention to contest the Presidency in 1983 against President Shehu Shagari under the NPN? Some of the President’s supporters reacted with a rebuke that the Presidency was not for sale as if Chief Abiola was pricing it by his declaration. There were also entreaties to President Obasanjo to do a Mandela by serving only one term. Not only did he refuse, but he decided to do a Mugabe by attempting to amend the constitution to serve beyond the two terms provided by the 1999 constitution. Look, we must be fair. Do you honestly think anyone could have prevented Vice President Atiku Abubakar from contesting the 2003 election, had Obasanjo died in 2001 just because the Presidency was zoned to South West? Wouldn’t he have sought re-election in 2007? Make no mistake about this, Obasanjo’s unsuccessful attempts at rubbishing him notwithstanding, Atiku has the potential to be a good President. He impresses me as a dogged fighter for democracy. He is gifted with sharp intellect. I would prefer him to late Umaru in 2007. We live in a country with the history of leaders killing and maiming people in an attempt to cling to power till death. All I am saying is that the constitution is very clear on President Jonathan’s eligibility to seek re-election in 2015. Anyone who disagrees should challenge him in court. To the second part of your question, why should there be such a pact? It is rendered null and void if any of the parties disputes or disavows it as the President has done. This should not overheat the polity. My advice to Mr. President, if he asks me, is to come out in the open and exercise his constitutional right to seek re-election through due process i.e. by seeking his party’s nomination and presenting himself to the electorate for re-election. The challenge to his eligibility or qualification should be through the courts. His suitability should be challenged through responsible debates in the course of campaign. If after all entreaties the President insists on running do you see the North supporting him or could they possibly vote against PDP instead? Since you seem to be too interested in President Jonathan’s eligibility or fate, let me make this confession. The President has so far offered me three appointments including a Ministerial one all of which I couldn’t accept. I therefore owe him no obligation. My comments could not be tainted by any political or pecuniary interests. To your question, why should there be entreaties aimed at preventing the President from pursuing his legitimate ambition to seek re-election? It will be presumptuous of me to determine how the North will vote in the 2015 Presidential election. In asking this question, you seem to be assuming that the North will vote as a block. Nothing will be further from the reality. It is my sense that the electorate in the North, as in other parts of the country, will consider the merits of each of the presidential candidates in their voting decisions. There is a growing misconception that the opposition of the G7 Governors is a representation of the collective political opinion or interest of the North. If you have in mind the PDP zoning agreement, well that is dead and buried in 2011. Recall how some Northern leaders protested Jonathan’s plan to contest the 2011 Presidential election, citing this PDP zoning agreement. They were defeated by forces which included all the G7 Governors and other PDP heavy weights like Gen. Obasanjo. So why would anyone want to resurrect it now? You may be tempted to say personal interest. The biggest party in Africa, as they tout the PDP, must expect some form of internal dissent which the G7 opposition is. It is a good and healthy development in our democracy. We must discourage a culture of “kowa yabi” (all concede). President Shehu Shagari contented with the most virulent attacks from the opposition – the so-called Progressives. President Obasanjo would not brook any form of opposition which he regarded as disobedience and disloyalty. He caused dissenting Governors and Senate Presidents to be impeached; many others were tormented by the EFCC; communities were decimated by the use of the military; it is the memory of President Obasanjo’s intolerance that makes any opposition against the President appears far-fetched. The President is not a monarch – and by the way, even monarchs are made to face opposition and persuaded or forced to submit to popular will. The recent events in Warri are a pointer to this. He must therefore expect to meet some checks. I would for example, if I were to advise the President, caution him against appearing to be a bully. Nobody likes a bully, he is no doubt feared, but there are people who will always stand up to him. The President must avoid getting tied down by unnecessary and petty diversions like involvement in the election of the Chairman of Nigeria Governors’ Forum. The crisis in Rivers State is most worrying. There is absolutely no doubt that Governor Rotimi Amaechi has become an irritant to the President and his wife. But nowhere near what late governor of Kano State, Alhaji Abubakar Rimi was to President Shehu Shagari. Shagari’s patient and mature management of the opposition should serve as a guide to President Jonathan and leaders at all levels. All those pretending to be in a fight with Amaechi on behalf of the President and his wife must desist. Minister of Education, Mr. Wike will serve the President better if he devotes his time to resolving the ASUU crisis. The Rivers State Police Commissioner, Mr. Mbu should be redeployed on account of his overzealous attempt to ingratiate himself to the powers in Abuja. Governor Amaechi must be aware that he cannot emerge as a David in this conflict. It is in the best interest of Rivers State and Nigeria in general that he adopts a more conciliatory approach to disagreeing with the President. To all intent and purposes, Nigeria is in a state of civil war. President Jonathan must be treated as a wartime President that deserves understanding and support. The PDP needs to address the grievances of all its disgruntled members. There is method to the stubbornness of the Amaechis, the Kwankwasos and Sule Lamidos. These are some of the most successful and accomplished governors in the country. The PDP should be proud of them. If there is any such group as the founding fathers of the PDP, Sule Lamido is a bonafide member of that group. He was there from the formative stage of the party, being a member of the G18. I am sure the dissenters also understand that they have no other party but the PDP. As attractive as their move to the APC or PDM may appear their fate in those parties is too grim to even contemplate. Can you for example imagine any party having the capacity to amicably accommodate Kwankwaso and Shekarau or Wamakko and Attahiru Bafarawa? What chance does anyone of them have in trying to displace Gen. Muhammadu Buhari as presidential candidate of the APC or Atiku Abubakar in the PDM? They are better advised to stay in the PDP and salvage it. Are you in agreement with those who are clamouring that power must return to the North in 2015? What evidence is there that it had ever resided in the North? One of the dysfunctional effects of “Turn by Turn” or what is referred to as zoning is the sectionalisation of political power contests. Politicians find it profitable to pander to our base political instincts. In the process, political campaigns assume religious and ethnic character. Nigerian society is being dangerously divided along those lines, as we approach 2015. We are suddenly finding ourselves in a political tug of war in a zero sum game in which one section’s gain is the other’s loss. No, I believe power should reside with good people; leaders whose purpose is public service; leaders who will be fair to all manner of people. Luckily they abound in all sections of the country. The issue of corruption has been something that successive governments in the country talk so much about, yet very little is being done to address it, do you think that this government is doing enough and what in your view can be done to better fight the war on corruption? If the first part of your question reflects our reality then it means corruption is inherited by the present administration. It is cumulative. You should therefore take this into account in rating its performance. I honestly believe that fight against corruption is not one of the strong points of this administration. As a matter of fact public perception suggests that this government has demonstrated a disturbing nonchalance towards the many acts of corruption. Failure to prosecute fuel subsidy and pension scammers are some of the cases often cited. EFCC has gone freezingly cold. The legislature and judicial arms have not won any medals in this ‘war’. It would appear that no meaningful national transformation can be attained in this atmosphere of suffocating corruption. The negative effect of corruption on our national fabric cannot be overstated. The President’s indictment of the private sector goes to show the pervasive nature of this malaise. What is your view of a credible political system that can take this nation to the desired destination? I have addressed this in the question on constitutional review above. Just to buttress the point, I will say any that you can name. It is about the right leadership which operates the system. Insecurity has become a national menace. What in your view is the government not doing right in addressing the Boko Haram insurgency in the country? Many reasons are being advanced as responsible for the current insurgency in Nigeria; youths’ unemployment, poverty, illiteracy and religious fanaticism being some of them. Whichever factor you consider it is difficult if not impossible to see how it can motivate any person or group to target innocent school children or slaughter unsuspecting passengers on their way to work. What is the religious justification for throwing bombs into churches and mosques, killing devout worshippers? Unless you know what the grievances or what motivates these people, it is difficult to see how to provide solution. People are fond of blaming government for failing to engage in meaningful dialogue with the insurgents. President Jonathan was spot on when he interrogated the idea of dialogue with an invisible enemy. This, I am sure, is the dilemma facing the Kabiru Tanimu dialogue committee which is yet to conclude its assignment more than a month after the due date. You should be aware that counter-insurgency is a most intricate and painstaking warfare. It is made more complicated when you are faced with an enemy who can easily blend with the community you are trying to protect, an enemy that has little or no regard for human life including his own. The USA is the most sophisticated military super power, yet it was unable to defeat the Iraqi insurgents and forced to tactically retreat. Facing a similar situation, it is planning to withdraw from Afghanistan where the Taliban has proven a tough nut to crack. With this background, I will score the Jonathan administration high in its counter-insurgency operations. It is a measure of its success that most of Northern Nigeria has not been overrun by Boko Haram insurgents. With all the difficulties being faced by our security forces they must strive to preserve a high standard of professional discipline. They must endear themselves to the general public. Poorly turned out military and police personnel we encounter at numerous official and illegal check points indicate the very pathetic professional standard the services have descended to. It is shocking to see the kind of solicitations security personnel engage in. Soldiers wearing pyjama-like uniforms cannot win public confidence. There is the need for duty officers to pay regular visitation to checkpoints so as to check the excesses of their personnel. Many stories of highhandedness and extreme cruelty are emanating from detention centres in the North East, the main theatre of operation. Service chiefs must investigate and act against any excesses. The civil populace should continue to cooperate with security forces, including reporting such acts of impunity and other professional misconducts similar to the reaction of some human rights activists in reaction to what is clearly a criminal extra judicial killing of some migrant workers in Apo, Abuja. We are reassured by the Senate’s decision to investigate this matter. We hope its report will be released as soon as possible. Many innocent victims are still languishing in detention. God is in charge. Will you say Northern leaders are doing enough to rein in those behind the security challenges especially in parts of the North now, especially Boko Haram and Ombatse in Nasarawa State? Going by popular expectation, particularly in the South, they are not doing enough, but realistically, how much more can they do? How much control or influence do they have on the security forces? The fear of the insurgents is the beginning of wisdom, particularly if you live in the North East. Excessive revenge attacks by the insurgents have succeeded in deactivating and discouraging most would-be informants. You should also be aware that the involvement of non-state actors has a tendency to complicate matters and prove counter-productive in counter insurgency operations. Except for the show of support and solidarity with security forces, how much has the so-called civilian JTF contributed in combating Boko Haram? They have simply increased the number of civilian casualty in the North East. Some of these poor brave volunteers have inadvertently ended in security detention. We have since come to realise that our earlier calls on Imams to speak out against the insurgents during their daily sermons are unrealistic. Many people attribute the rise in violence in parts of the North to the fact that certain leaders who are opposed to President Jonathan’s government are sponsoring insurrection to give the impression that he is incompetent and then be a hard sell in future elections, do you share this view? Many people are wrong if they believe this. It was the attempt by opportunistic president’s supporters to find scapegoat for government’s inability to understand a difficult situation. This is akin to blaming the victim for the crime. It is silly and even wicked. It ignores the timing of the start of the Boko Haram insurgency. Was it not President Yar’Adua who, some would say over reacted, ordered security forces to move against the sect in 2009? This wicked perception should have been erased by the serious escalation of the insurgency which has resulted in the government’s declaration of a state of Emergency in three North Eastern states. Do you honestly believe in the existence of leaders that will encourage a group that is making life so miserable and unbearable as the Boko Haram is doing, would any Northern leader be backing any group that engages in the assassination of respected leaders like Gen. Mohammed Shuwa or attempt to murder revered traditional rulers like the Emir of Kano and expect to make political gains from these. So who is behind the security challenges in the South, rampant kidnappings, rising militancy and crude oil theft? Engaging in this sort of scape-goating can only send our security forces on a wild goose chase. It is not only unfair, dangerous and diversionary, but can also lead to human rights violations similar to the ridiculous accusation arrest and detention of Senator Ndume and other innocent people. We must show greater empathy towards the major victims of this insurgency. The All Progressives Congress (APC), the party from the merger arrangement of some opposition political parties has vowed to dethrone the PDP come 2015, but with the way things are going, do you see this happening? Well recent events would appear to suggest that some elements within the PDP are working harder at this task than the APC. I honestly believe in the need for the PDP to face a strong opposition so as to check Nigeria’s drift to a one party dictatorship. A party that boasts of credible and serious minded members like Gen Mohammadu Buhari, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, Audu Ogbeh, Tony Momoh, Sam Nda Isaih, Governor Raji Fashola, Shettima, Bafarawa et al has the potential to give PDP a good fight (“Kare Jini Biri Jini”). I am sure that PDP is aware of this threat and will do all it can to put its house in order. Some people are being very naïve in believing that the current internal crises in the PDP will result in an automatic victory for the APC in the 2015 Presidential election. If you understand that the mere choice of its presidential candidate may decide the fate of the APC, then you can see how uncertain its chances of dethroning the PDP are. It must work very hard to cohere as a serious and well organised political party which can achieve such lofty aim as dethroning a ruling party. Sacrifice and hard work are the instruments. To all politicians, I will counsel national interest before any other consideration. We have been here before. It is Shakespeare who rightly observed in Macbeth “To be thus is nothing but to be safely thus”. I will leave it at that. Since leaving office of Military Governor of Kaduna State and the military, you have concentrated more on farming, but can you say this government is doing enough in the agricultural sector to make it a possible mainstay of the economy? Oil has had the devastating impact of diverting a large amount of our investable capital to that industry. Governments have also been content with sucking from the oil feeding bottle. Over 90 percent of government’s revenue is derived from oil. The wealthiest and highly visible 2 percent of our population are a creation of oil wealth. The impression is therefore Nigeria is operating a mono-cultural economy, with oil as its engine of growth. In reality, oil accounts for less than 30 percent of our GDP and most of the balance is contributed by agriculture. It is not easily noticeable because the attention of the press is elsewhere, but Nigeria is in the midst of an agrarian revolution. Thanks to deliberate government policy and the mopping up of most of our financial capital by politicians and banks leaving people with no option but to return to land i.e. farming. The rising tension and conflict between nomadic cattle rearers and sedentary farmers can be explained by the expansion of arable farming. There is an impressive rise in rice cultivation in many parts of Northern Nigeria, particularly Kebbi State. It is in such a large scale that the Federal Government declared intention to make the country a net exporter of rice in 2016 achievable. Nigeria is already exporting yams, potatoes, vegetables and eggs to many West African states. Thanks to investors like Aliko Dangote, Abdulsamad Rabiu, Adamu Aliero, agro allied industries are being established. This will cut down on waste and increase agric production. The Federal Ministry of Agric under Dr. Adesina has done well. A lot more can be done. Cheap credit to farmers will assist. There is the need for states and Federal Government to delineate and secure grazing land for livestock rearing. To reduce the clash between livestock rearers and sedentary farmers ranching should be encouraged. 2015 is around the corner, are you interested in any elective office? By God’s grace, a commissioner in the government that I headed is today the Vice President of the country. So which office should I aspire to? I am content being a farmer and a human rights activist whom you still seek his opinion on national issues.
Posted on: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:55:12 +0000
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