PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ. This is the record for the second hour of debate on Bill 10 from yesterday. The Minister Liz Sandals did some back peddling, the difference between ILLEGAL and INDEPENDENT daycare was cleared up (although its too little too late) and a little bit of the wind seems to be out of the Minsters sails. If we keep chipping away, the Liberals will listen. They are already hearing us. Child Care Modernization Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la modernisation des services de garde d’enfants Resuming the debate adjourned on October 23, 2014, on the motion for second reading of Bill 10, An Act to enact the Child Care and Early Years Act, 2014, to repeal the Day Nurseries Act, to amend the Early Childhood Educators Act, 2007, the Education Act and the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I’m advised that when we last debated this item of business, we had completed questions and comments on the speech from the members for Simcoe North (Dunlop) and Nepean–Carleton (McLeod), who had shared their time. Further debate. Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m pleased to be able to offer a few minutes looking at Bill 10, the Child Care Modernization Act. One of the things that I think needs to be understood at the very outset of this is whether this is actually not one step forward and two steps back, because when we look at the details of the “modernization act,” it seems to me that it has thrown many thousands of people into deep concern over the direction this act takes the government. It seems in their minds that, in fact, this is an insistence by this government on making life more difficult for Ontario families and a fundamental removal of choice when it comes to child care. It’s in that context, then, that I look at this particular piece of legislation. The bill purports to update child care in the province. I think it’s also important to understand the nature of the legislation that governs the categories of child care that is provided in this province. Today, we have three different categories: private in-home day cares, which have five or fewer children; if there’s more than one location, the centre becomes a private home day care agency that must be licensed under current legislation; and, finally, day nurseries, which have more than five children and must be licensed as well. Those would be the ones that most of us recognize as either for-profit or not-for-profit. They’re stand-alone or they’re part of schools, leisure centres or something like that. The important thing is that 80% of children are in unlicensed private home day cares. It’s important to understand that there is a demand for these facilities, the vast majority of which, of course, provide safe care for infants and toddlers. Thousands of families are happy with the care they receive and oftentimes save money by not sending their children to potentially more expensive licensed care. Unlicensed home day cares play an important role in our province. I know several people who have opted for this type of care. Sometimes it’s the only care available to families with young infants, as many licensed centres will only take children 18 months or older. Unlicensed homes can fill that gap between 12 and 18 months when families are desperate for care as parents go back to work after a 12-month maternity leave. So it’s really important to understand that they have a very specific role and that they cover about 80% of the people who are seeking day care. On October 20, the Minister of Education, in question period, implied that unlicensed child care centres are illegal. There seems to be some confusion about the difference between being unlicensed and actually illegal. From the Ministry of Education’s own website: “In Ontario, individuals may look after five or fewer children under 10 years of age without a licence—in addition to their own children—if in their own home.” I think we must make it clear for the public that “unlicensed” doesn’t mean “illegal.” 1740 There’s also something that we need to understand, and that is the fact that, particularly on the heels of the publication of the Ombudsman’s report, there is very clearly a history of poor administration on the part of the government. It’s important to understand that even before this piece of legislation, there was already a complaint system in effect for daycare. If someone suspects wrongdoing or danger, an inspector is supposed to investigate the child care facility in a timely manner. But the Ombudsman’s report released last week tells a very different story: a story of failure on the part of the government. Careless About Child Care is the title, and I think it speaks for itself. His report on child care consists of 113 recommendations. The details of the kinds of problems that the Ombudsman reports demonstrate that the government has not been following its own rules. Surely we recognize that there are standards in place. There is already legislation, but we have to follow the legislation and guidelines that exist, as opposed to creating a whole new system to deal with potential problems. The Ombudsman identifies this in his report: —sloppy, inconsistent complaint intake practices, and an inadequate complaint tracking system; —ministry guidelines not followed; —inspections delayed or never done; —staff untrained in conducting investigations or on legislation they enforce; —poor inspection practices; —careless evidence-gathering; and —failure to involve or educate parents about daycare standards and facilities that are not in compliance with them. These are some of the details that the Ombudsman’s report deals with, and he refers to it as “a legacy of dysfunction” by this government. For all of us, the disturbing information that government officials ignored numerous complaints shows that this government was failing to protect children. As I said, there is already a system in place. It was not being used. I suggest that we first look at the legislation that is in place and look at what we should be doing. The government is unfairly attempting to change the rules for families with young children. Bill 10 will, in effect, destroy the child care system that is currently in place and make it difficult for these centres to continue to operate. It also threatens the livelihood of thousands of people and causes unnecessary chaos for families needing to find care. But Bill 10 does not provide any solutions to the chaos that will ensue when thousands of daycare spaces close, as there will be a vast shortage of licensed centres. Where will children go when their unlicensed centres close? Where is the government’s plan for the 80% of Ontario’s children who will be forced out? Of course, in turn, will families find themselves having to look at giving up a job in order to look after their children? Increasing government regulation, according to this proposed piece of legislation, and oversight in existing centres will also mean that child care costs will inevitably soar in order to fund the growing bureaucracy, licensing costs and increased inspections. There are currently thousands of children in unlicensed care. Who will be able to perform those inspections? What infrastructure is in place? Or will we need to create a new system from scratch? We know that even with the current system, it can take time to have an inspection done. It seems that having more inspectors, at a greater cost, would be the only way to make Bill 10 work. If that’s the case, then we’re going to be spending more on child care while actually providing less child care. We’re spending more on inspectors and the whole infrastructure of a child care bureaucracy, without actually increasing the number of spaces. If there is extra money in the child care fund, then we should be reducing the cost for families. Ontario families are already struggling to have a two-income household and provide adequate child care for their children. Ontario has the highest child care costs in Canada. According to a 2013 Globe and Mail report, a study by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development indicates that the average monthly costs for infants in Ontario is $1,100. That’s an annual cost of $13,000. You can think of this as a second mortgage. Child care costs are already extremely high, especially compared with other provinces. Manitoba’s, for instance, is $631. Creating more red tape, more regulations and increasing operating costs for centres in Ontario will only make it more difficult on the pocketbooks of families and business. Mr. Speaker, in the last five years, I’ve spoken with hundreds of small businesses, and have heard the horror stories about regulations and red tape. Some businesses have said that they can’t keep up with the regulations and costs that it takes to be a small business in Ontario. Some businesses, depending on the industry, must deal with a plethora of agencies, boards and commissions, and meet requirements from all of them. Sometimes the requirements for one are in competition with another. I used this example the other day when discussing Bill 18, but I think it’s a great example. In 2012, the Ontario Home Builders’ Association said there were 28 ABCs—agencies, boards and commissions—that home builders have to deal with. How much time do businesses have to deal with all of these ABCs and all the different rules they make? Why is the government making it so difficult for businesses in Ontario to succeed? If Bill 10 passes, pretty soon a whole new industry—child care centres—will learn how hard it is to deal with more and more government bureaucracy. Who knows how many of these centres will be closed due to the increased red tape, regulations and associated costs? Not only is business hit with red tape, they also have to worry about payroll taxes, which Bill 10 is sure to add to child care centres, if passed. The Ontario Retirement Pension Plan is the most recent payroll tax that the government will be introducing. According to businesses and associations that I have spoken to, the ORPP will inevitably add more expense and reduce profits, and jobs will be lost. Between red tape, regulations and payroll taxes, the government seems to be on the lookout for ways to make running a business in this province more difficult, and I’m struggling to understand why this is. Bill 10 is going to create another bloated bureaucracy. The problem is that this is looking after something that could have been looked after by the regulations that already exist. Even in the College of Trades, the kind of bureaucracy that has been created and the kind of oversight that has been—is part of that bill. So it looks like another industry, child care centres, is the next in increasing costs for businesses and families. One of the most important things that I think is a potential fallout from the changes that are being contemplated is what this will do for people who can’t meet the requirements, who see having fewer children as something they can’t manage. They’re going to be looking at doing it on the q.t. Parents are going to be looking for spaces for their children. People are going to be able to offer this, and I think it will only encourage them, when there are such vast numbers of people who are affected, to operate underground. In fact, once you’ve produced that level of frustration, that level of inability to pay fees and incur the costs, then the effect of the bill is actually to decrease oversight as more and more seek to provide the service in an underground economy. 1750 My colleague from Simcoe North has called on the minister to consult with daycare providers and families on Bill 10 before rushing to pass it. He has suggested that the bill travel during the winter recess so that we can have a better understanding of its impacts. We have received letters already about how the bill will negatively affect daycare providers and families with young children, but it seems that it would be good for the minister to hear these stories first-hand from the people who have to live with the effects of the bill every day. Families and child care providers should be consulted on this bill so that we ensure that any new legislation will help, not hurt, families and children. I add my voice to that request because one of the things that is such a dramatic influence on the way in which this bill would be rolled out is whether you are in an urban area or a rural area. In much of the rural areas, there aren’t stand-alone daycare centres; there isn’t that kind of opportunity for people. People do look to neighbours and friends and people in the community to provide daycare. That unlicensed daycare is an option for people. When it’s made more and more difficult for anyone to provide that kind of service, it just reduces the opportunity for people to find that neighbour or that friend; the person who has been doing it in the community for years is no longer able to do so. I think that, apart from the varied voices that come with the process of public hearings, one of the most important voices left out is the small town, where people may not be able to access bigger-scale centres. The other thing about this legislation is the question of timing. Obviously, thousands and thousands of people are involved, and they need to have time to make adjustments. The people in the business need to know whether or not they can survive, whether there’s a business case for them to be able to survive. Families need time to make those adjustments as well. I think that the timing of this legislation is critical for any kind of implementation planning. As I mentioned a moment ago, the question of the underground economy is one that I think should be viewed very, very carefully because of the fact that when people need to make those kinds of choices and are unable to, they feel that they are ready to take maybe a bigger risk than they otherwise would, but they also feel somewhat desperate. I think there’s a lot of good reasons why we need to have the bill travel and hear different points of view. I think also we need to recognize that no piece of legislation should force families into choices that they would not otherwise make. When it comes to child care, people deserve a choice. There is no one size that fits all. Some prefer an intimate home setting which might not work for others. We must continue to offer families options so that they can feel comfortable leaving their children in the care of others. As I said earlier, 80% of children in Ontario today are in those home settings. I think that it’s extremely important, when we’re looking at this bill, to look at the goals of this bill. They should be clear: a safe, stimulating and affordable experience for our most valuable resource, our babies, and their futures. Instead, this bill throws out to us the spectre of declining spaces and consequent shortages, the increased costs with inspection and bureaucracy and restricted choice for parents. I think that is the danger of this bill, and I certainly want to indicate that we feel that this takes away from the family’s ability to choose what type of daycare best suits their lifestyle. As the Ombudsman’s report outlines, the child care system in Ontario must be fixed, but Bill 10 is not the solution. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Before I adjourn the House, I’ll ask if there are any questions and comments. Hon. Liz Sandals: I wanted to comment on some of the remarks made by the member for York–Simcoe. The term “illegal child care” was actually introduced by the Auditor General. It refers to the situation where an unlicensed child care is contravening the rules that are set out in the Day Nurseries Act, or in the future, hopefully, in Bill 10. It was actually the Auditor General who coined the phrase “illegal child care.” Certainly, the vast majority of providers of unlicensed child care are not behaving in an illegal manner, and they’re a valued part of the child care system. In fact, I’ve frequently used that myself with my own children. But I do think it’s important to point out that the auditor made a number of recommendations, and in fact, Bill 10 addresses those recommendations that the auditor made. What Bill 10 is doing is very, very consistent with what the auditor said. For example, the auditor said, “The Ministry of Education should change its licensing policies to reflect that, absent extenuating or compelling circumstances, individuals who have a history of violating the Day Nurseries Act”—the current legislation—“or successor legislation”—that’s Bill 10—“should not be granted a licence to operate under the act.” Well, under Bill 10, if passed, it would prevent an individual from providing child care based on their past conduct, including conviction for an offence under the act. In addition, in the proposed legislation, a director can refuse to issue or renew or revoke a license based on past conduct. So that’s an example of something that people have complained about—“You’re getting too mean.” In fact, we’re doing exactly what the auditor, or what the Ombudsman—sorry, I want to correct my record: I kept saying “Auditor General”; I should have been saying “Ombudsman.” We’re doing exactly what the Ombudsman said. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Any further questions and comments? Mr. Steve Clark: I’m pleased to provide a few comments regarding Bill 10. I wasn’t going to, but then when the minister stood up—I think I have to. I appreciate what the member for York–Simcoe has said about Bill 10. I, as well, as House leader, have received a letter from our critic, Mr. Dunlop, asking me to ask the government House leader and the third party House leader to have hearings on this bill throughout the province. There were some significant protests this weekend to Bill 10, and I just can’t believe that the minister would stand up and not address what the member for York–Simcoe talked about. It’s becoming evident to the members on this side that this bill needs to have some public comment. I know I did an interview this week with one of my smallest weekly newspapers because there is concern out there. Again, I used this comment last week and I’ll use it again today: I think we need to help educate people and not just legislate. We do have tools that are used at our disposal to be able to go out to all corners of the province and engage constituents on this type of legislation. Again, we’ve seen this government close down debate today on one bill. They’re closing down debate on another bill tomorrow. This bill cannot have debate closed. We need to have a discussion with people, and I’m asking again, through you to the minister, to talk to your House leader, listen to what the people are saying, and let’s have some hearings on Bill 10. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Questions and comments. I’ll return to the member for York–Simcoe for her reply. Mrs. Julia Munro: Thank you to the Minister of Education and the member for Leeds–Grenville in providing further comment. I tried to make clear in my comments that obviously there are steps that are necessary to take in terms of people who have done something in contravention of the Day Nurseries Act or any of those things, and making sure that what we have at the end of the day is something that is safe and workable. My concern is more a question of the nature of the member from Leeds–Grenville’s, the one-size-fits-all problem, because of the fact that the independent providers that I’ve met would face a fairly steep cost and measures to take to become part of an agency or something like that. They don’t see that as very practical for what they’re doing. And as I say, the other problem, with reducing their numbers, is that it reduces choice for families. Since 80% of children are in that kind of a setting, I think it’s important to monitor, as the minister said, but I also think it’s important to recognize the viability and the need to maintain that kind of service opportunity or choice for families in Ontario. Second reading debate deemed adjourned. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): It’s 6 o’clock. This House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 9 o’clock.
Posted on: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:30:41 +0000
Trending Topics
Recently Viewed Topics
© 2015