This is a discussion I took part in in a group I am fortunate to belong to called Dear White America. The poste is originally from Jorge Eugene Moran and the Mary he is quoting is not me. I hope you can follow the commentary. It is valuable. If you are unaware of whom Tim Wise is please feel free to google him. Thanks for listening: I support tim wise always have always will. But curious your take on this? (These are not my words below) Mary wrote: I find myself a little uncomfortable with Tim Wise, and I am not quite sure why. I do believe that it is the responsibility of White allies to be vocal witnesses pointing out racism whenever we see it. Hes doing that--but maybe I am uncomfortable because he is somehow bringing more attention to himself than to the subject of White privilege. I love the information he is providing, but where is the voice of POC? Could he not somehow have a partner of color to testify alongside him? I dont know exactly where my discomfort comes from, but I think I do not like the fact that a White voice is maybe drowning out Black voices, kind of like Elvis Presley. I am almost certain that EPs poor imitation of Big Mama Thornton on Hound Dog had an element of tribute in it, because I really do not know a single musician who doesnt respect the great ones, regardless of race or gender. But still, Presley got all the glory and money, simply by virtue of being a White man. Am I silly, as a White person, to struggle with this? Like · Lee Gaylord and 5 others like this. Mary A. McMillan Clark If we need white allies to speak out; should we shut them up once they are somewhat effective? 3 hrs · Like · 2 Michael D. Nurse This should not be about fame and fortune. If today or tomorrow it became clear as in the days of the civil rights movement that your life was literally on the line and the FBI had an agenda to ruin, discredit and or imprison/murder you. The ranks would be weeded thin. Whos stepping up to take Malcolms, Martins, Medgars place... Any man who has the passion, conviction with sufficient knowledge and truth should stand and be counted. Leadership in movements is more than personalities, whining and complaining. Its about inspiration, motivation, faith and commitment. Who says anyone has to be front and centre. I look back at Martin, his ideals his philosophy and his mission. He always desired brotherhood as a goal. He always advocated the manifestation of character, somehow, the more black conscious the movement becomes, the more isolationist and nationalist some factions become. Its common knowledge that no righteous movement can endure in the shadow of injustice. The means must justify the goals. There are 41 million people of colour that are in desperate need of edification. Definitely, no need for competition. Smh 3 hrs · Edited · Unlike · 6 Eddie Jones i find it interesting how those who feel some typa way about Tim Wise are either dating or married to someone who has his complexion....there are many melanated men who say the exact same things that he says, yet those same people are quick to dismiss it and consider it crazy talk tho...if they took the time to listen to him, they would hear him acknowledge those who gave him insight, unlike Elvis, who took that ish all for himself....its like a damned if you do, damned if you dont-type thang, because if there wasnt a Tim Wise, folks would be mad that there arent white folks speaking out against systemic white supremacy. 3 hrs · Unlike · 9 Jessica Wicks He has often said he does not pretend to be the expert on racism. His role specifically is to carry the message forward about white privilege, where he stands on firmer ground. Honestly, my first reaction to people with that much charisma is to be put off. But when I listen to his words, he speaks real truth. From the beginning, Ive heard my black and brown brothers and sisters say how important it is for white people to be instruments of change against whiteness. Hes doing that. So by all means let him keep stepping forward to carry the message. Many whos internal race messaging will not let them hear the voices of those impacted by that racism, may well listen to it from another white person. Btw, he addresses this in his book White Like Me. 2 hrs · Unlike · 8 Michael D. Nurse Dating or married to someone who has Tim Wises complexion? Is this supposed to in some way change someones perceptions? Lol 2 hrs · Like · 4 Brandon Gamble No. I appreciate Tim Wises work too and I think he is aware of that challenge but he pressed forward nonetheless. I pray he can be open enough to listen, especially to the Black people he so often writes about. 2 hrs · Unlike · 6 Mary A. McMillan Clark There are so many whites that need shuttin down & shuttin up...He is not on my list. 2 hrs · Like · 7 Mark E. Gunn Racism in America is a problem created by Whites for the benefit of Whites and itll take Whites to cure this mental illness. More power to Tim Wise for speaking out so loudly and so often. The fact that you think hes stroking his own ego means that hes building top of mind awareness. Wise doesnt need a poc to co-sign for him because weve made the same arguments for generations only to fall on deaf ears. Bottom line is that hes telling a truth that is uncomfortable to hear and it needs to be heard. 2 hrs · Unlike · 9 Michael D. Nurse The issue should never be about Tim Wise or any other advocate. It should be focused on the goal to deconstruct white supremacy. Everyones course has an end. Lets not pretend that if Tim disappears tomorrow, the complainers will suddenly become prominent. 2 hrs · Unlike · 5 Lee Gaylord Tim Wise lost his white privilege when he spoke out against racism. I am sure many whites think of him as a traitor as they have with other whites who get involved with civil rights. I have been threatened for my views and had problems with cops because of them. I am sure he has even more. 2 hrs · Unlike · 6 Mary A. McMillan Clark Excuse my language but shit, my damned cousins think I cannot be reasoned with because I say there is no such thing as racism against whites. I wish they knew who Tim Wise was but they blocked my feed years back. 2 hrs · Like · 4 Michael D. Nurse Crabs in a barrel complex. 2 hrs · Unlike · 4 John Wason Sounds like a letter to Dear Abby. 2 hrs · Like · 2 Mary A. McMillan Clark On the plus side: No more invites to the re-unions. 2 hrs · Like · 4 Eddie Jones it shouldnt be an issue in the first place Michael, but those in that situation seem to be the main ones who trip...i got a friend who even likens him to Iggy Azaleia, which is wrong on so many levels. 2 hrs · Like · 1 Marshata Caradine He is doing an exceptional job!!! What you are dealing with is your WHITE PRIVILEGE being exposed and its uncomfortable because its so deeply embedded. 2 hrs · Edited · Unlike · 8 Michael D. Nurse Sounds a little like stereotyping Eddie. 2 hrs · Unlike · 2 Mary A. McMillan Clark Ok, I may be in for it now. I love Iggy. 2 hrs · Like · 1 Eddie Jones if you knew the folks who made those comments Michael, you would probably understand...no stereotyping, that shoe just seems to fit some folks. 2 hrs · Like · 1 Michael D. Nurse No doubt 2 hrs · Like · 2 Mary A. McMillan Clark I think Marshata nailed it! 2 hrs · Like · 1 Mary A. McMillan Clark I think we need more like Tim Wise, more like Iggy. We are all so damned gentle with whites because we know they are clueless, but we need some massive shock therapy, including yours truly when Im dense. There is so much defensiveness in the white community they become fricken rabid when called out. Hell when my alarm goes off in the morning it is ugly. It has to be if I want to wake up. I took issue with the Paris march and the silence on Nigeria and a fair portion of my liberal white friends went silent or got defensive. Defensive against what? Facts that is what. 2 hrs · Like · 3 Lee Gaylord 33 years ago when my x and i got married we went to 5 preachers who said they would not do the wedding because of the mixed race. We got a white preacher who marched with Martin Luther King at Selma. He was fired because of it even though we did not get married in his church. He did have us go to his church before the wedding. We had an outdoor wedding at her parents house in the hood. 2 hrs · Unlike · 3 Jorge Eugene Moran Love you guys and your wisdom. Beautiful thoughtful comments all. 2 hrs · Unlike · 2 Ronnie Brown I maintain that Tim Wise needs to be even more aggressive with the white community...after all, It is called WHITE Supremacy...you cant count on one hand the number of white pundits, activists, preachers, etc. who are challenging white people as a collective...certainly not with the public profile that Wise currently has...There is no white MLK/ John Brown-like moral authority in the land speaking truth to power with a singular focus on white racist oppression...Black people have plenty of voices, its white folks themselves who are falling down on the job... 1 hr · Unlike · 4 Mary A. McMillan Clark White liberal pride has to go by the wayside now. It is a huge obstacle to any step forward. If the sentence, But Im a good white person pops into your head upon reading or hearing about any kind of racism, you need to re-evaluate. I know because as a consequence of living in a dominant culture I am always re-evaluating. Thus I learn. (Oh & is it comfortable? No! Its not supposed to be!) 1 hr · Edited · Like · 3 Mary A. McMillan Clark I so wish there were a way to post this entire post and discussion on my page! 1 hr · Like · 2 John Quentin Stewart White people only listen to white people....just fact ! 1 hr · Like · 2 Mary A. McMillan Clark Since this is a closed group would anyone who posted in this discussion object if I were to figure out a way to put this discussion on my page? 34 mins · Like · 1 Jorge Eugene Moran You should Mary. 20 mins · Like Mary A. McMillan Clark I failed...lol. Not the most tech savvy ally around. 1 min · Like
Posted on: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 04:07:01 +0000
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