VERBATIM OF THE KIRINYAGA COUNTY ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS HELD ON TUESDAY JULY 23 2013 AT THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY KERUGOYA. The session started at 3.00 PM (The chair of the session was Speaker Hon. Anne Githinji) {Hon. Speaker} Prayer. {Hon. Speaker} Let us have all the honourable members in the house. Kindly those honourable members outside the house. The chief whip… (Hons. Joseph Mungai Ruru, James Kinyua Mutugi and David Kinyua walked into the chamber) We proceed with the order of business. {Deputy Clerk Samuel Kago}; Madam Speaker, the order of business today the 23rd July is: 1. Administration of oath 2. Communication from the Chair 3. Messages 4. Petitions 5. Papers 6. Notices of motion 7. Statements 8. Motions and Bills {Hon. Speaker} Communication from the chair. Honourable members, it is good to alert all members, that’s why I wanted all members to be in the assembly, hopefully and I think we have fifteen. We have a good number. It is good that all members know that we have a calendar of events. Our calendar, note somewhere, reads, from 16th June to 21st June 2013, recess, that is spent. Remember we went for a recess and were recalled but we compensated. Honourable members 2nd August to 2nd September, we are taking a recess so that if you have urgent matter it has to come next week and the reason why I wanted all members to be in the house. If you have any statement, petition, any motion, Bill let us know before we close for that recess of 2nd August to 2nd September 2013. The last recess will be coming on 6th December 2013 to February 10th 2014. I have also directed the acting County Assembly clerk to put this information on the notice board for the public and for ourselves to take note of those dates. That is a very important calendar to note so that whatever is urgent is brought to the house. Secondly, I believe the various committees will also have to plan on recess whatever activities that will engage in when you are on recess. You should let the speaker know in advance. This time round I would like to sign that wherever you are am aware where the members are. I need to know where you are through invitation, a copy of that letter and I will have to approve it so that I know where members are. Plan early enough when am here before we break for recess so that it can be brought to the attention and is programmed by the House Business Committee before we go for recess. The House Business Committee has sat and the proceedings are today, tomorrow. You are all aware. Yes honourable. (Hon. Geofrey Gakuru walks to the house) I will not repeat. Members will update you. We were looking at the calendar of events so that members can mark and bring it to the notice of the speaker that they have some activities to be programmed by the House Business Committee. The House Business Committee sat this afternoon and programmed the business of the day and this week as follows. Today being Tuesday, tomorrow Wednesday at 10 Am we will have the swearing in of the nominated members and they will wait outside according to the House Business Committee, because before we swear them they are not members of the County Assembly. We will go to the order of business which will only have that event. We will have the order of business as it is because it is mandatory, after the usual prayer, we go to the administration of oath, we will have the chief whip and the leader of the majority party who will propose that we have people to take oath and join the County Assembly as members, then at that point it will be brought to the notice of the speaker, then the Chief Whip and deputy who will usher those people in. We have decided where they will seat, when ushered in they we will swear them just like the way you took your oath. The event will start at 10 am and we hope we will be able to reach them, we have their names, phone numbers and the gazette notice. After swearing all of them, the speaker will give a speech and from there, God willing, we will proceed for a cocktail. We have not confirmed the cocktail because we have no funds but if we will be able to get on credit, or whichever other means, we will like to have them a cocktail or a lunch depending with availability. We are yet to confirm that part until there is a willing caterer who is ready to do that on credit. That is how we will proceed tomorrow. On Thursday, like today I have not received any document that is business in terms of messages, petitions, motions, statements or bills. What I received is proposed motion, which comes before a notice of motion. The proposed motion has just been proposed it is not an issue for deliberations until it becomes a notice of motion so that it is addressed to the house. For person not interested, although they need to check on how they drafted, then they will withdraw the notice of motion at their own volition or will then they will bring another notice and follow the entire procedure again rightly. Let us be sure by engaging the experts to ensure we don’t recall what we have done. The procedure is that you don’t bring the proposed motion. Take the proposed motion to the clerk, it is brought to the speaker, at this point it is not a business of the house until is a notice of motion or motion for perfection in procedure. I have not received any business for today and on Thursday we will still be waiting for more business to come. The swearing tomorrow will be the only business, if you have any business for the house kindly I would urge you hold until Thursday 2.30 PM so that we schedule all the other usual business. {Hon. James Kinyua Mutugi, MCA Wamumu} Am sure we agreed in our Standing Orders that the speaker should have an eye. I have all along been waiting for the speaker to see we have a stranger in the house who is not properly dressed. Madam Speaker I am only praying that this house takes this matter very seriously because it has been an issue that may become serious if necessary steps are not taken. Madam speaker kindly your indulgence so that in future we do not have members misbehaving in the house. Thank you madam speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Is there another point of order which is related to that? There can’t be two at a go. Allow me to address that one. Honourable members I do agree, as members we have a lot of commitments but today is not an impromptu day for our meeting, honourable member not properly dressed kindly leave the house. Let me give a stern warning that any time another member comes will be suspended for days outside the precincts. Let’s take the issue of dressing code seriously, honourable member we will excuse you today but next time a honourable member comes improperly dressed will leave for days or months. Honourable member on whose that concern has been raised kindly leave the precincts. (Hon. David Mathenge left the house) Thank you honourable member for bringing that to the attention of the speaker. Yes honourable member I hope we are addressing on the issue of the chair. If it is a serious concern yes.. {Hon. Jinaro Njamumo, MCA Mutithi} Thank you madam speaker. From your comments on communication from the chair, you have indicated that today we do not have a notice of motion. I wanted to bring to your attention, I had given a notice of motion this morning and it must have come to your office and the clerk’s office. It was a point of information that there is. And when it comes to notices of motions may be, I be allowed to proceed. {Hon. Speaker} Yes on my desk I saw, the acting clerk will confirm that if it’s there it will be given an opportunity. Honourable members without adding much to what we have said, we legislate and this is something I have repeatedly said, that is our mandate. But when we look at oversight, it means it will take three, six months or one year, because we are not going to check whether trucks are pouring cement or materials. Honourable members let us take the role of legislation very seriously because when I read this letter from CIC, this is the second time it is coming asking us how far we have gone with our legislation work. The speaker must bring to the attention of members, that a lot of it, you will be at liberty to see it, we will be writing mail to say how far we have gone. This is a tool to indicate how far we have gone. If we will be saying we have not written, we will have a problem because we a lot of it needs experts. When I read the letter you will understand why we need experts for guidance. {Hon. Gudson Muchina,MCA Tebere} Point of order Madam Speaker. I rise to raise my concern over the issues of legislation with this house, Madam Speaker, because if what we have been doing and the motions we have been bringing to the house, have not been brought in order. I would urge this house to make a resolution that the office of the speaker and the clerk to facilitate and fast track the recruitment of experts. Even if it means hiring of an expert to be assisting us in drafting of these motions because if we continue like this coming to the house and we are not bringing motions in order, then we are dragging our county back. So we request the office of the Speaker and the clerk to facilitate and fast track the same. Let’s have experts whom we shall be consulting in the office on the issues of motion because we have been drafting our motions and then we find that the Standing Orders are kicking us out due to the improper way of presenting the motions. So Madam Speaker we would wish that we register as a house we are demanding that we need an expert in that office who will be assisting us. Secondly Madam Speaker I would wish to clarify on the issue you have talked about, the program and permission. There is an issue you have said about permission and you would like us to be informing you in advance where we are over the recess, it is not coming outclearly Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Thank you honourable Gudson. To clarify on the issue of consultancy we had two consultants but we were guided that we need tender and procurement which will take 2-3 months, however if I read this letter, they want a report within three days. That is the challenge we are going through but I believe as a house we can make a resolution because I would say three people who have approached me on legislation and I don’t have any interest you can decide that you don’t need them. It is Rachael Shiberire, the one we were with, Wanyaga I don’t remember the other name and there is Ndegwa Njiru. Those are the three I know they have expressed interest. If you say that they be engaged as a resolution of this house, we will engage them and they will negotiate later. What happens in legal practice there is a book called remuneration order, which guides on how people are being paid and which can also be negotiated. If members agree that they be assembled am not sure of the availability. Members may take their phone numbers and call them for guidance because unfortunately we don’t have the ipads. I thought by now we will be having the ipads because you just need to give the idea and that persons email you your motion, your statements or your petitions. Because we want to be guided whether what we are bringing are all motions or are statements some look as if they qualify for petitions or statements. That was the essence of iPods but since we are not there we hope to be there soon. We can still look for ways of having internet forward to them or call them; I know people like Ndegwa Njiru is not from far but am not so sure. But until you try somebody legal ,it is general practice expert, is what you are expert in. When it comes to drafting it needs an expert until somebody drafts and we look at the roles and we see do not agree with those of the National Assembly then we realize that person is not fully skilled because it is not that there is a certificate issued, they just go to the Attorney General or National Assembly and you are trained by old workers there or ministry workers. Basically they don’t have to be lawyers, I know in the Ministry we drafters who are not lawyers. So somebody should not say am not drafting because am not a lawyer, however I do appreciate that we need somebody full time to sit here and try help us focus but this will not happen without a strategic plan, structures, how we are engaging here at the assembly, at the ward level .So much is pending which I believe we shall quickly be able to fast track. Legislation is mandatory and that’s why we are meeting here every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Honourable members we have to agree on a way forward otherwise will be coming to adjourn and I believe some are coming from far and everybody here is very busy. So members decide what you want as a resolution of this house then we move on and feel free, if you don’t want a person I don’t know them I don’t have any interest just leave them. And get us better person to take Kirinyaga where it should be. Yes honourable Njamumo. {Hon. Jinaro Njamumo, MCA Mutithi} Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to support the idea of having an expert drafter. Madam Speaker the house remembers last week during our last session we had one of our honourable members trying to guide us on the relevance of Standing Order on a motion they had brought in the house. They realized that it was improperly presented before the assembly and even the fact that CIC which oversees the implementation of the constitution is raising issues asking how many motions, roles and legislations we have done. It is important that we get an expert. Madam Speaker this assembly has more than ten motions before us. For us to be able to expedite properly and to make a good conclusion on all motions am of the opinion that we need this expert for proper guidance and compliance with the legal procedures. When it comes to sourcing the expert, Madam Speaker, it is important that this house as we request that they approve sourcing of a drafter we need to look at past experience and history, although you were saying it is not necessary that one has to be a lawyer. The assembly now goes through in its own procedure the qualification of such people so that we are properly guided. Madam Speaker it is said when we come to giving out tenders it is a policy that thirty percent of tenders to be given to the people who belong this county. Madam Speaker to be able seek legal expert from this county I would propose to members it would serve us better so that we also have our people who have a hope grown ideas of what we need in Kirinyaga County. Madam Speaker I support that this house makes a resolution immediately because there are motions which will be working on the budget estimates that we passed and it would be serious that if we do not have those motions in place it would be difficult for us to implement some parts of the proposed budget. And so Madam Speaker I support a drafter and most probably and possibly a local person. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable members the member left us with a local person. Honourable members feel free you can even try them in rotation so that you can even compare their drafter so that by the time you come to employ you are sure you are sure we are employing somebody of substance. Honourable what is the way forward? Let me read this letter so that you see the urgency. It is written to the Speaker Anne W. Githinji. The Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) is mandated, under section(5) of the sixth schedule to the Constitution, to monitor, facilitate and oversee the development of legislation and administrative procedures required to implement the Constitution of Kenya,2010 and, to monitor the implementation of the system of the devolved government effectively{Section 15 (2) (d)}. CIC is also charged with the responsibility of ensuring that the sovereignty of the people is protected, the observance by all state organs of democratic values and principles is secured and constitution is promoted {article 249(1)}.for reference. As part of the monitoring, facilitating and overseeing the Implementation of the constitution of Kenya 2010, CIC wishes to assess the progress made by each county assembly in playing its roles and responsibilities as provided for in the constitution, the county government acts (2012), the public finance management act (2012) and other relevant laws of Kenya. To achieve this, CIC has designed a monitoring tool to capture information on activities undertaken by each County Assembly, from inception to June 30th 2013. Specifically we request each County Assembly: Indicate the type and number of roles and responsibilities addressed during the period, in the tables attached and inform the CIC the names of committees formed by and operational in your county assembly. Inform CIC the status of the county assembly`s transition plans (section 16 of the transition to devolved government act, 2012) and finally provide details of the structure and systems put in place. For example, plans to guide the work of the assembly, details of a framework to guide the development of legislation including what at a minimum, each law should cater for, administrative procedures, human resource management, asset management, financial management, facilitation of people`s participation in matters within the authority of a county assembly, framework to the assembly in engaging the senate and the national assembly, framework to guide the county assembly service board in the provision of services to the county assembly, capacity and other resources needed by the county assembly, frameworks developed to handle petitions by the public on any matter under the assembly`s authority. Kindly note that this is an interim tool as a harmonized standard framework for reporting by county governments to CIC will be availed for future use in reporting. Enclosed herein find the requisite material for your action. Kindly revert to us within three days of receipt because we need the information to form part of our reporting to CIOC, as required by section 5 (6) (c) of the sixth schedule of the constitution. Yours faithfully, Charles .A. Nyachae Chairperson CIC. Honourable members that’s where we are and to agree we cannot form a committee now and tell the speaker to go and do this. You must guide me with somebody or form a team or leave that and do it tomorrow or give us a team which can respond to this because they even want the plans we have in upgrading the council roles, aligning them, administrative structure policies and frameworks. All these must be put in place and responded to. How soon do I get the report? Do we have a planning committee in our select and sectors? Which is the only oversight we have and it is not different. So honourable members let’s leave this, we can meet later and deliberate on it because it’s urgent and we have those proposed names. In our schedule in the order of business we will go to number three messages, petitions, papers, we go to notice of motion and there is a member who has said he has I believe the clerk has confirmed. So honourable Jinaro Namu Njamumo your documents were received at 1.30 PM. That’s the reason they are not in the schedule and they will be scheduled for another date. Am being shown they were received on 23rd July 2013 at 1.30PM, Therefore we will give you a chance at the appropriate time and when they have been properly scheduled as business of the day. Next we go to statements, motions and bills. There are statements? Honourable member tell us when you brought yours? {Hon. David Mwangi Mwaniki, MCA Inoi} Madam Speaker I rise on standing Order 80 it says, by the indulgence of the County Assembly a member may bring matters of a personal nature although there is no question before the county assembly but such matter may not be debated. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable member I totally agree and must be strictly of personal nature. And I believe personal it’s not another person it’s me affected on what am saying. Are we together on that? It must be Madam Speaker talking about Madam Speaker not any other letter that is why it’s called a personal nature. That is the case? Okay continue honourable member. {Hon. Mwangi Mwaniki, MCA Inoi} Madam Speaker its very brief having cited the Standing Order that is supporting me, I rise to bring to the attention of this house that on the month of October 27, 2013 I will be having a thanks giving service in my local church St. John Thaita. (Applause) It’s a personal statement? Isn’t it? All members are welcome. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Mr. Speaker I do agree that’s a matter of personal nature, 27th October we are all invited. Now we go to motions and bills. Yes honourable Njamumo. {Hon. Njamumo, MCA Mutithi} Yes Madam Speaker I rise on a point of order 40. Madam speaker that is, members general statement and I indicated according to the Standing Order, the office of the honourable Madam Speaker that I had a statement to make and I also seek madam speaker`s permission so that on the same standing order part three that says, no member making a statement under this order shall speak for not more than three minutes unless with permission from the speaker. Madam Speaker since I want to make a general statement and I believe my statement will take more than three minutes I wish to seek for your permission. {Hon. Speaker} Proceed but indicate how many minutes. {Hon. Njamumo} Madam Speaker it’s around 7-10 minutes madam speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Okay the clerk will guide us on the time. {Hon. Njamumo} Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam speaker we are aware that we approved this year’s budget and an Appropriation Bill was assented by his Excellency the Governor. Madam speaker before we approved this budget we had some pending issues that touched on expenditures of the county government of an amount that was dispatched by the National Treasury of shs133 million. And all through the Committee of Finance had wanted to know how this money was appropriated or was spent but we could not get an answer madam speaker. It is in this connection that I wish to make a statement that shs133 million is a lot of money and I believe there was development that was supposed to be done through this allocation both in the Executive and County Assembly budget, madam speaker. No explanation has been given on how this sum of money was appropriated and that we have jumped into this year’s budget madam speaker and in this house some members are aware that a quarterly carrying a recurrent expenditure of shs217 million 012-374 key recurrent expenditure and shs45 million being development expenditure madam speaker, for the assembly that schedule was forwarded to the CFO for onward transmission to the Controller of Budget. We would want to know how much of this amount of money has been approved madam speaker since the Executive is and should have started to implement the budget and the assembly would also need to know how much was approved. Since we have been having constraints to have information from the Transition Authority madam speaker it is like this County Government has been put in a very awkward situation by the Transition Authority. Every other time the committee needs to have information from them there is no information that is forth coming. And realizing the losses by 15 of July madam speaker, this is the time the National government should realease money to all the 47 counties. We would want to know as a county government or as an assembly if this has been done and how much has been given to us madam speaker. We would want madam speaker as a matter of urgency to know; there is the refurbishment that is going on in this County Assembly building and we do not know whether it is part of the shs133 million that was part of last year`s budget is what is doing this all this refurbishment or it is purely a commitment that was made by whoever made the commitment to start this work here and then pay through the allocations that we have approved in this year`s budget. As I conclude we are aware, this is to be confirmed very soon, that the contractors who were given these tenders to refurbish this County Assembly are two. One was apportioned the upper part of it and the other was given the lower part of this assembly. Word is going round that the person who was given the lower part of this assembly is not a qualified contractor. It means that for this work to be done the person who was given this tender is going to sub-contract another person and it would be very expensive for this County Assembly to bear the cost madam speaker. Alongside this action, madam speaker, the only million dollar question one would ask is, because there will be a completion certificate that will be given after the works on this assembly is done, will the certificate of completion be given by two contractors? This is an issue that need to be answered very soon madam speaker because there is a lot of money that we allocated to the refurbishment of our assembly, shs55million. If we start having issues going round that we can have two contractors working on the same building it means there is a lot that needs to be checked. We also know madam speaker and we have information that the speaker`s house is getting refurbished, there is an allocation we believe that was part of the shs133 million that could have done that work. Madam speaker we do not whether the house of the speaker is being refurbished through commitment money to be paid through the budget that we passed or an allocation that was to be from shs133 million Madam Speaker. There so many issues madam speaker touching on the finances of this county government including procurement of tenders. Madam Speaker I fear that if this County Assembly does not stand firmly to check the appropriation of finances of this county government is being done we might end up becoming stogies , we become spectators of our own money and we shall have opened flood gates on the misuse of tax payer’s money. We understand madam speaker there were some procurement that were done for the assets and items of this County Assembly and I will urge the members to make a very serious follow up to know what and which items were procured. Were they procured using the same shs133 million for last year or it is procurement that is supposed to be gotten from this year`s budget? And if those items were procured madam speaker where are they? Who has kept them and how much did they cost madam speaker? These questions are the responsibility of this house to seek answers madam speaker and I believe there are only two ways to do that madam speaker. It is either we get answers to this statement from the Transition Authority, through the Leader of Majority Party or we have this answer through the Finance Oversight Committee. As I conclude I would urge that this house deals with this matter urgently and it is said no committee here can be able to summon a person from the Transitional Authority. It was said in the corridors if this assembly and in some of the offices in this assembly that the law does not allow a committee to summon members to the county assembly. But madam speaker I revoke provisions of Standing Order 172; that talks of powers and privileges of the committee. Committees shall enjoy and exercise all powers and privileges bestowed on County Assembly by the constitution and statute including the power to summon witnesses, receive evidence and request for and receive papers and documents from the government and the public. Madam speaker, I would urge this house to make a decision. Whether we shall invoke the necessary legal requirements or we shall live by threats and leave our money to go down to waste. As I sit down, I seek the guidance of this house and madam speaker`s guidance so that we expedite this matter and conclude once and for all madam speaker. Thank you very much. {Hon Speaker} I do understand that you have said you seek guidance but i would also like to appreciate that the Standing Order 172 is very clear that nobody should ignore summons. Now what we should ask ourselves is when they are ignored how do we enforce? Because I believe we should summon even a minister. We should summon even from the national on a point of clarity but what has happened is that they are not supposed to come to the assembly but they supposed to come to the committee then you bring the report to the assembly. The assembly decides whether you go to the ethics and anti-corruption or whatever action should be taken. And if it’s real theft, in the straight meaning of theft we take you to jail because that’s where you belong. However in line to what you have stated a few things have been clarified to me about shs133million that one has been confirmed it has been received. Shs133 million was received to this county. Am also aware that there are accounts which have been released and I have seen one that cites the salary of the County Assembly as shs46 million, i personally raised that issue then with the governor that we have not spent shs46 million as salary of this assembly. Am looking for clarity because I have that document from Gachugo reflecting salaries for the assembly as shs46 million, I told them I want clarity and I will go to the highest level if somebody tries to play around when am the speaker. Then there is the issue of procurement, those ones may have been done through the TA but we need to know whether they are in the last budget or they are in the current budget. Issues of procurement, I have just been briefed that we have six cabinets, that we have 40 chairs, long desk, photocopier, and a safe to keep money. I have also been briefed that we have opened an account. Those have just gotten them as a by the way, brief by the acting clerk but I was also equally concerned as to how we procured all these and we forgot ipads and medical cover. They also ought to have prioritized also on ipads and medical cover. That does not go into the details of money processing but at least should be briefed with a letter be informed. However am happy because the acting clerk has got that to my attention. On the issue of repairs for the assembly am not aware but there are ongoing repairs, that one am getting it from you. Even the details of those two people we need to bring a report with evidence that there are people who have been contracted on the same and also know whether they are acting within the past account or the current account which we need to verify. As a speaker am not aware of the dates when these money was received and how they were spent. Am not aware as I stand here and that is also an issue am raising with the Transitional Authority and all those who are concerned and efforts to ask as a speaker I was told all those reports that I want are with the clerk so maybe we will ask our interim clerk to give us the details because it’s still in the tender committee but decides to buy and how much you have been spent. I believe that information should be within our premises according to what the TA has guided. About the speaker`s house, the speaker is entitled to a house and a vehicle as per the CIC guidelines and a residence, I got a letter.I called the county secretary and I told him that it is reaching a point where the speaker will say is not able to move and the speaker is not able to sleep in hotels anymore. I will do a letter that will clearly say that they have paralyzed the speaker of Kirinyaga County. It is on that same day that Gachathi wrote that now there is a house I don’t know KMC1, still engaged and to be repaired because it is in a deplorable situation. Personally I have not bothered to go and see it and I would also like to know whether it’s being repaired by the past account or the current account. I believe all these issues lay squarely in the finance committee. Because I believe oversight is not after a year or six months that’s when we are told how the money is spent. Am told that all these details you need to have and if there are any issues you can go to the Auditor General or Controller of Budget. All those officers have been deployed to assist you. So am also told the controller of budget has a report. I had asked him to do me a report on the previous budget before we engage the current budget for us to understand the next budget. I also wanted to know how they will limit this money because the approval is by the Controller of Budget and it appears he approved all the other monies. And even equally to know the percentage that was given to the assembly for its expense of which the CFO. So these issues of account would rather from the speaker`s opinion revert all of them to the Finance committee and if you need any other assistance I know committees can combine effort. You can go to any other committee if you think you need help to combine with and really move with speed because we want to be sure that in the next phase we are not controlled like we have been controlled in the past. Otherwise it is a very questionable operation and we need to get to the details. We don’t want to suspect. We want facts then make a conclusion and visit the necessary offices for help of any kind on each including jail term if there is any misappropriation maybe that is what the speaker would say for now. Yes honourable Gudson. {Hon.Gudson Muchina, MCA Tebere} I would like to comment on the statement of my honourable member and state that this is the high time that anybody who is working under Kirinyaga County government note that there is an assembly and the assembly has all the powers and privileges. Article 185 of our constitution which is supreme even to anybody else which states that a county assembly or any of its committee has power to summon any person to appear before it for the purposes of giving evidence or providing information, it continues section two for the purposes of clause one an assembly has the same powers as the house court to enforce the attendance of witness and examine them on oath, a commission or otherwise. We have the powers to compel the production of documents and issue a commission or request to examine witnesses even in abroad. So when the transitional officers says that nobody in the assembly has powers to summon him that an insult to Kirinyaga County Assembly. We would like to send a very clear message to these transitional officers, executive and the people working under the Governor. Let them not take taint the government of Kirinyaga and the Governor`s office because they know the Governor is new in the office and they are mandated to use these funds. Let them not misuse their offices. We shall be on their necks if they misuse the Kirinyaga county funds. We demand that these people be summoned through the committees relevant and after they are summoned and they refuse to come to the committees then we take the necessary action as the assembly so that we may start teaching them a lesson before we enter into these budge tally allocations. Because if they cannot be able to account for such a little penny what about the 12 coming months? Will they be able to account to us? So it is the high time they account for that money and what they are doing because the public finance act states clear that, public money should be used in a manner that everybody is aware of what is happening and if any document is asked the relevant person should avail the document even to the public because even the public has powers to get information through the constitution. Thank you Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Honourable members may be as we had said we could leave that issue to the Finance Committee with any other relevant committee and interested member s who would like to join and salvage the situation since it need to be done so. Yes honourable Wagura. {Hon. Joel Wagura, MCA Kariti} Thank you Madam Speaker. Am standing on a point of order number 79(1), My concern is, the other day we passed the budget and the Governor assented to it and as it is now its like the financial situation of the county is somehow struggling. If I may give an example, last Thursday I got information from the facebook that Sagana town was full of dirt. When I went past the town to confirm that I found it is very true and I had to call the clerk of the town to confirm about that and I was told there are no funds. And what I know, the constitution had set a date that the national government should have released the first quarter of the funds to the county government by 15th July. Everywhere we are all complaining even from your opening remarks. Now I wanted you to send some light Madam speaker on what is happening about the finances in the county. {Hon. Speaker} Not to appear to be answering you but also when it comes to money I also consult the acting clerk. He has told me that they expect money by Friday but he is not sure. So that is what I have gotten and I also wanted to know how soon members get paid the salaries and all the pending allowances. And to add to that I would also urge the Finance Committee to ensure that every members counter checks what they are owed so that it is all computed. We should not have backlogs on our transport, airtime and on our committee sitting. Every member need to verify that what is reflected by the pay roll mistress or master is the collect figure. It’s good to clarify that on time so that when money comes as we have been guided on Friday or next week, he is not sure but we are all waiting. Yes, it’s good to clarify on what issue? {Hon. Njamumo} on the same, the disbursement of this money Madam speaker. Madam speaker am aware there is the schedule for the 1st quarter which was prepared by the other interim clerk and it was submitted to the CFO and I indicated for onwards transmission to the Controller of Budget. Now I have heard Madam Speaker say that you have confirmed part of this disbursement has been made in form of salaries but madam speaker in the statement that I had made I had indicated now the 1st quarter that is July, August and September we have totals of recurrent expenditure that is supposed to be disbursed and the information that we are supposed to be given is whether the total of this money is there. Because procedurally when the national government is now asked for the1st quarter money is released as one bunch madam speaker. When you are told it was only for salaries and maybe allowances this assembly is not clear and that is why Madam Speaker we are seeking answers and clarifications from whoever is releasing this information. Since it appears the money is being released in phase thereby raising a lot of questions Madam Speaker. {Hon. Speaker} Because we don’t have the full report and we don’t want to suspect or speculate we mandate the finance committee as I had said earlier jointly with other committees because its within the law and any other interested member to sit and assist in issues of finance so that we are very clear in our mind. If we you obstacles in summoning and production of documents you report to this assembly in good time so that we seek the necessary enforcement, maybe that matter rest there. Yes honourable Joel doesn’t want to lock you. {Hon. Njui Ndambiri, MCA Kabare} I just wanted to get clarification on whether that work should be directed to the finance committee or county public and investment committee? Because if you read standing order number 186 it’s very clear actually which committee should look into account or how money has been spent. {Hon. Speaker} Is that county in existence? Okay jointly with finance because I believe finance had started the process and any other member because this involves money and as honourable Gudson has said even the public is entitled to know. Leave alone the Speaker and MCA`s and so it’s a public document. Go and look for those documents and report without speculation or suspicion so that we decide on our way forward. {Hon. James Kinyua Mutugi MCA Mutithi} Am standing on standing order number 87 which is about responsibility for statement of facts, which a member shall be responsible for the accuracy of any fact which the member alleges to be true and maybe required to substantiate for any such facts instantly. Madam Speaker, I rise to state that matters of finances are public they are not secret because in Kirinyaga county the way some people want to treat information is such that there are those who should get information while others should not. Madam Speaker I raise to state clearly that the whole issue about speculations and statements being made here, it’s about communication. There is breakdown of communication at some point Madam Speaker where we as members are sometime stranded when we are not informed of some issues. We have to make our own ways of getting that information and some the information that we get maybe grapevine, it maybe our own stories. I would only urge this house that these matters are serious and therefore to assert the same let the member who wishes to make a statement tabled out some evidence the facts like you have been briefed Madam Speaker on the expenditure of some money, that’s from a factual point. But I want to say Madam Speaker am only praying that before we make any statements in this house we get proper evidence based on true documentation of facts so that as we act our minds are very clear. Madam Speaker it becomes very agonizing sometimes where you get some statements and when you follow up you get a contradictory report on the other side and sometimes you are left wondering which information you rely on. Madam Speaker I only wish to say and state clearly this is a honourable house and the deliberations made here in should be honored as a member has stated concerning the powers and privileges restored up on us. Thank you Madam Speaker and I support that we get proper information on the finances of this county because there is a real issue about them. {Hon. Speaker} Yes we are in consensus that no speculation no suspicion but I believe the member was reporting the challenges which I believe even the Speaker has encountered but we must get a break through because we have been brought to its speed with the knowledge that we can enforce like a high court. We only need to walk to the High court and know how they enforce. So honourable members we are not desperate we will sought soldier on and get to the conclusion of the matter. Tomorrow as I had said we have that ceremony so we need to leave and organize for it, those who are involved. We shall swear them at 10.00 A.M. Hopefully if we get them they shall sworn in at 10.00 so honourable attend so that they find that we have embraced them and also try guide them on how we move on with our business. So tomorrow at 10.00 is the swearing in ceremony, be punctual let them see the dressing code a lot of things they will be observing and I appreciate the concerns raised on the dressing code as well. There being no other matters the house adjourns to July 24 2013 at 10.00 A.M. The House rose at 4.08 PM :::::Disclaimer-Obtain the official Hansard from the office of the clerk or Hansard Editor>>>Thanks.
Posted on: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 07:17:15 +0000