Whos with me on the culture of death? How about the culture of elective peace? Spouting off over on NSF again, arguing the latter. Posts like this from me tend to get deleted. Oh well. Picture a bright blue ball, just spinning, spinning free... youtube/watch?v=HatKUhhyksA forum.nasaspaceflight/index.php?topic=35833.msg1274274#msg1274274 [quote author=Jeff Bingham link=topic=35833.msg1273762#msg1273762 date=1413785149] [quote author=Jim link=topic=35833.msg1273708#msg1273708 date=1413773806] [quote author=ChrisWilson68 link=topic=35833.msg1273563#msg1273563 date=1413752674] Youre oversimplifying. We had a manned space program under development before Kennedy set the focus on a moon landing before the 1960s were done. In fact, Kennedy chose that particular goal and timeframe because his advisers told him that was an achievable goal given the progress that was already being made. Apollo was always seen as just a step in the wider progress of technology, including expanding human civilization into space. [color=red]Thats why Apollo was an effective Cold War tool -- because it was seen not as an isolated stunt but as part of the broader advance of civilization.[/color] It was a way of saying the Western system was better at advancing civilization. That only makes sense if Apollo is seen as part of a longer-term move into space.[/quote] No, you are romanticizing the whole endeavor. The workers such as Von Braun and Korelev may have had visions of advancing civilization into space, but to the politicians, the program was just a stunt to prove technological prowess. Apollo was nothing BUT a dead end Cold War tool, it was not a part of a longer-term move into space.[/quote] There is SO MUCH documented history that demonstrates that you are ... so wrong in discounting what ChrisWilson68 said! [/quote] JFK was a flawed person, as are most people. He did try to advance human civilization, probably hoping that such a productive enterprise would eventually lead to mankind achieve a destiny other than perpetual war. He got shot for his efforts, and no political leader since then, including the hopey changey ones, like Carter and the current One, have managed to stem the culture of death which is preferred by too many people of power, regardless of color, creed, or orientation. Write me in for Prez in 2016. Sheesh. ***************************** forum.nasaspaceflight/index.php?topic=35833.msg1274281#msg1274281 [quote author=Jim link=topic=35833.msg1273861#msg1273861 date=1413815583] [quote author=Jeff Bingham link=topic=35833.msg1273762#msg1273762 date=1413785149]There is SO MUCH documented history that demonstrates that you are ... so wrong in discounting what ChrisWilson68 said! I must have a couple of hundred books o... not to mention that I spent thirty-five years actually living and working in the arena ...[/quote] I have just as many books and documents and have spent 30 years ... NASA HSF has [been] floundering for [reasons] to exist since Apollo. NASA looked for the next big thing. It was space station with a space shuttle to serve it. But the station was delayed, so shuttle had to exist on its own merits, which were based on bogus information (high flight rates). The failure of the shuttle system was brought to light with STS 51-L. And so the ELV was reborn along with commercialization. Which if were allowed to happen in the 70s would have negated a need for NASA to operate a vehicle for the nation. For a large part of its 30years the shuttle existed to for NASA HSF to have something to do (make work). Where are all the breakthrough scientific discoveries from the 30 years of shuttle flights? I was involved in 20 shuttle missions supporting experiments that flew on them. The most experiments had flown before and most are still flying on the ISS. I was the biggest NASA and shuttle supporter growing up. I arranged my schooling so that I could work in the manned spaceflight program. Upon graduating from college and getting my Air Force commission, I was assigned to what was basically the Air Force shuttle program office. Saw first hand that NASA was just interested in flying the shuttle and astronauts and payloads be damned. Got out of the USAF and worked on the Spacehab program and saw the same thing. Experimenters were told to turn around and refly their experiments just to fill up volume onboard. The experimenters didnt have time to analyze results from previous missions to adjust their experiments accordingly. Now dont get me started on the waste I see in the HSF program now and for what? ... But if we have a [national] mandate, it shouldnt be done the way NASA HSF is doing things now. NASA is behind ULA and other commercial companies who in turn are behind the likes of Spacex. NASA unmanned could both learn from the commercial side and also teach the HSF on efficiencies. Yes, safety is important but I like this mantra: Mission first, safety always... [/quote] He should not have brought up the number of books and years, but felt that need out of frustration. Betcha Ive got more books than either of you, and I have been following NASA closely since 1960, in first grade. Romance is the only thing that mankind has going for it. As a form of speech, thought and religion, it is protected, for the time being, by our Constitution. The problem is not with NASA in principle, nor with the USG in principle. The problem is in the dishonest hearts of the men who have been charged with perfecting the union. They are tapping the public treasury for their personal gain, and they are not governing as they should. Virtually every point you made up there is what I see from the outside. NASAs leadership continues to waste time, treasure, and talent at the behest of its corporate warlords. And the politicians are children in the playground singing [url=youtube/watch?v=HatKUhhyksA]ashes ashes all fall down[/url]. Lets all sing [url=youtube/watch?v=5xyf8-nslqw]Kumbayaa[/url].
Posted on: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 13:51:45 +0000
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