Reprinting this thread here, as its the kind of thread that can get deleted. I think its really important to keep these discussions open, free, critical and unhindered. No one far away from the scene in Ukraine can expect to have any definitive word, and of course those directly investigating shelling of civilians will get more information. But I think we are surely entitled to subject this report to the most basic journalistic inquiry, the most basic common sense and adversarial thinking that HRW itself brings to so many of its tasks: https://facebook/tanya.lokshina/posts/735149206539993?comment_id=735866733134907&offset=0&total_comments=18¬if_t=feed_comment_reply Tanya Lokshina Cathy, there is absolutely no geometrical or typographical way this could work. However, no matter what Im going to say it wont make much of a difference to you. So, lets discontinue this conversation. All the best, November 29 at 5:56pm · Like Catherine Ann Fitzpatrick Of course there is. I will draw the possibilities on a map showing known separatist positions - I will put this on a blog soon. In the meantime look at the video I linked to above. The lack of intellectual curiosity and critical thinking in your camp is astounding. November 29 at 6:30pm · Like · 1 Catherine Ann Fitzpatrick Of course theres a geometrical way, Tanya. There are multiple incidents from Nov 25-27. Regarding the bus, its possible that the shelling came from Pesky, but more information is needed. interpretermag/ukraine-live-day-281.../... As for the Kuybyshev District, this shelling that set buildings on fire on Shakhtyorskoi Slavy Street did not come from Pesky, i.e. from the northwest, but from the west. Shells Which Burned Out Residential Area of Donetsk Came From The West interpretermag/ukraine-live-day-287.../... And thats just it. It many of these battles, there is either a) evidence that shelling comes from BOTH Ukrainian and separatist positions b) evidence that shelling did NOT come from Ukrainian positions and likely came from separatist positions. Yet HRW, when it comes to shelling, is ONLY investigating allegations regarding Ukraine. Why? You only mention in passing that perhaps separatists could be to blame for shelling, but you dont investigate it. Is that because it is impossible to do so in territory controlled by them, especially when you have them as escorts when you go to look at evidence? The HRW reports so far that are official reports as distinct from dispatches where anything goes do not definitively make the claim that Ukraine is responsible for deliberate war crimes, but just as with reports on Israel, it makes the allegation hang nonetheless in ways it does NOT do with separatists. Why? Is your certainty here on Facebook about geometrics going to also go into an official report for HRW or Memorial? But what are the grounds for such certitude? Are there to be maps, pictures, trajectories, experts? Will you show your work? Then, regarding Grads, HRW is only investigating Ukrainian Grads, when there have been numerous convoys of separatists with Russian Grads, and of course, these numerous incidents -- heres three stories just from today! -- of separatists firing from residential areas which then endangers civilians by exposing them not only to misfires but to return fire, of course. Video Reportedly Shows Children Playing Near Grad Rocket Launch Area interpretermag/ukraine-live-day-287.../... Video Shows Militants Firing Grads From Residential Area Of Donetsk interpretermag/ukraine-live-day-287.../... Civilians Film Grad Rocket Launch Across The Street From Their Apartments interpretermag/ukraine-live-day-287.../... It is not about excusing or failing to place scrutiny on Ukraine -- which of course theres no danger of, giving the laser-like focus you have on one side in this war, along with influential media from the Guardian to the Times. But its about providing that same scrutiny to the separatists shelling, taking the same sort of adversarial cast of mind you bring to the Ukrainian military to the RUSSIAN-BACKED separatist fighters.
Posted on: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:45:52 +0000
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